Return of seized de...
 
Notifications
Clear all

Return of seized devices

25 Posts
6 Users
0 Likes
1,979 Views
(@wotsits)
Posts: 253
Reputable Member
Topic starter
 

I'm not in LE. The after effects of an investigation are rarely discussed.

Once a write blocker is used on a drive it cannot be undone (I believe), and this is normally one of the first steps in an examination.

So basically any computer or drive that is examined is ruined prior to being returned to the owner

Unless a court orders something to be destroyed (usually as a result of illegal material being contained on it) it remains the property of the owner and subject to being returned (one day).

What are people's rights on this?

 
Posted : 02/12/2016 1:54 am
passcodeunlock
(@passcodeunlock)
Posts: 792
Prominent Member
 

It is not like that, once something is seized, the owner's rights limited on it. Once a case is closed, the owner rights are given back.

In the meantime, the LE are allowed to do whatever is needed with the seized goods, including partial or total destruction.

 
Posted : 02/12/2016 2:15 am
Chris_Ed
(@chris_ed)
Posts: 314
Reputable Member
 

Once a write blocker is used on a drive it cannot be undone (I believe), and this is normally one of the first steps in an examination.

So basically any computer or drive that is examined is ruined prior to being returned to the owner

I'm not sure I understand your question here - how does a write-blocker in any way cause a drive to be "ruined"? The entire point of a write-blocker is to preserve the data integrity as much as possible. If you are destroying a HDD then your processes are, uh, extremely questionable.

In the meantime, the LE are allowed to do whatever is needed with the seized goods, including partial or total destruction.

The owner is innocent until they have been to court and tried by a jury of their peers. Therefore while their possessions are with you, it is your duty to handle them with the utmost care and respect.

If they are tried and found guilty then whether their deives are returned typically depends on the type of crime; for fraud then they can be kept by the police as part of the proceeds of crime act, I believe. For IIoC, they can rightfully ask for the PC back without the offending HDD IMO. I have known of cases where the defense have successfully argued that the HDD can be wiped and returned, but that is somewhat contentious among certain parties. For me - the safest bet is to keep and destroy the HDD, but if I wipe it then realistically what can be recovered?

 
Posted : 02/12/2016 2:09 pm
jaclaz
(@jaclaz)
Posts: 5133
Illustrious Member
 

Once a write blocker is used on a drive it cannot be undone (I believe), and this is normally one of the first steps in an examination.

So basically any computer or drive that is examined is ruined prior to being returned to the owner

Are you kidding? 😯
The WHOLE point of using a write blocker is to (hopefully) make NO MODIFICATION WHATSOEVER to the device.

The issue may be (it is) with "intrusive" procedures, such as chip-off.

I also wonder about the newish "waterproof/water resistant" mobile phones, if a phone needs to be opened to (say) JTAG connect (which in itself it is not a "destructive" operation or however of very limited impact), who will re-certify the device re-assembly?

Consider how it can happen that a poor, innocent, chap may well erroneously have his phone seized, and - besides having been deprived of part of his "digital life" for several months, he is later returned the device half-@§§edly re-assembled.

Same goes for recent Mac's and Surfaces, if the investigator - for whatever reason - needs to actually open it, who is going to reassemble it (and procure the needed spare parts?

We are used to talk about suspects implying (most of the times) that they are actually guilty, but what about the innocent ones?

jaclaz

 
Posted : 02/12/2016 3:16 pm
passcodeunlock
(@passcodeunlock)
Posts: 792
Prominent Member
 

We are used to talk about suspects implying (most of the times) that they are actually guilty, but what about the innocent ones?
jaclaz

In this case the LE and the innocent victim agree to a deal, usually the innocent ones make pretty big money )

 
Posted : 02/12/2016 9:04 pm
jaclaz
(@jaclaz)
Posts: 5133
Illustrious Member
 

We are used to talk about suspects implying (most of the times) that they are actually guilty, but what about the innocent ones?
jaclaz

In this case the LE and the innocent victim agree to a deal, usually the innocent ones make pretty big money )

Sure, where does that happen? ?
Disneyland? 😯

The investigating LEO's ask for a warrant (possibly based on some vague suspect and/or indirect knowledge) to a Judge, that finds - in a preliminary exam - the request to be founded enough and provides a warrant, your phone, desktop and laptop are seized (obviously without being notified in advance) all your local backups are also seized.

In a few months a digital forensics detective examines these devices finding no evidence of any crime, and in a few more months the main investigators (or prosecutors) will decide to not prosecute you.

Then and only then you may try to apply to the Court asking for your seized property to be returned.

And what happens if - say - the warrant is invalid ?

The cops keep the material some more time, at least in the UK
https://www.criminallawandjustice.co.uk/features/Retaining-Unlawfully-Seized-Evidence

@Wotsits
http//www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2001/16/part/2/crossheading/return-or-retention-of-seized-property
http//www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2001/16/part/2/crossheading/remedies-and-safeguards
etc.

jaclaz

 
Posted : 02/12/2016 11:41 pm
passcodeunlock
(@passcodeunlock)
Posts: 792
Prominent Member
 

If somebody is innocent and had losses because of any kind of mistake, I'm pretty sure LE can't just say "Sorry, bye!". This is not a technical issues, it is more or less a game of the lawyers.

 
Posted : 03/12/2016 4:32 am
jaclaz
(@jaclaz)
Posts: 5133
Illustrious Member
 

If somebody is innocent and had losses because of any kind of mistake, I'm pretty sure LE can't just say "Sorry, bye!". This is not a technical issues, it is more or less a game of the lawyers.

Which is VERY different from "In this case the LE and the innocent victim agree to a deal, usually the innocent ones make pretty big money".

You hire a lawyer and possibly you can sue for indemnification and - maybe - you get back a fraction of the damages.

jaclaz

 
Posted : 03/12/2016 4:35 pm
jhup
 jhup
(@jhup)
Posts: 1442
Noble Member
 

If somebody is innocent and had losses because of any kind of mistake, I'm pretty sure LE can't just say "Sorry, bye!". This is not a technical issues, it is more or less a game of the lawyers.

In what jurisdiction?

Because, I can point you to some that I worked in where you would lose your teeth if you asked for the equipment back, or some others where you would get cost plus plus and a personal apology.

 
Posted : 07/12/2016 10:30 pm
passcodeunlock
(@passcodeunlock)
Posts: 792
Prominent Member
 

In Hungary the second part applies, where the innocent usually abuse their rights after a mistaken case…

 
Posted : 07/12/2016 11:05 pm
Page 1 / 3
Share: