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My police interview tapes have been edited!!!

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(@thehippo)
Posts: 11
Active Member
Topic starter
 

Hi all,

I have just joined the forum because I am after help.

I have a criminal record that I was unaware of untill relatively recently. It came from a summary hearing whilst I was in the Royal Air Force.

After many letters, I finally managed to get hold of a working copy of the interview tape. I am certain a segment has been removed.

I have sent my tapes to be analysed because my criminal record ended my RAF career and has limited my career choices as an aircraft engineer (airside security passes are harder to get) There are two audio dropouts on the tape, one of which occurs exactly where I remember being pressurised into waiving legal representation. Are audio dropouts common place on cassettes? To me it sounds so edited, and to any one I have played it to they agree.

I have already spent £600 having the cassette analysed, and the company who did my analysis cannot give me an explanation that sits well as to why there is a low probability of editing, although I think they agree it has been they are unable to state anything other than an extremely low chance of editing.

I would be extremely greatfull if anyone with any ammount of audio knowledge who would like to read the report or listen to the wav file created by the company. I will send you the link even if you are just curious and would like a listen, I'd appreciate any feed back.

Many thanks,

The Hippo

 
Posted : 10/08/2012 12:10 am
(@armresl)
Posts: 1011
Noble Member
 

Hello,

600 is quite on the low side, may I ask who you sent it to?

Also, for your review are you looking at a copy from the master, or a copy of a copy, or even a generation further?

Was this being recorded from a recorder placed on the table, or from a video camera and then you get the audio from that camera.

Lastly, what did the findings you received say about the point in time from the tape and how it looked on the spectrograph at that moment.

 
Posted : 12/08/2012 12:25 am
(@thehippo)
Posts: 11
Active Member
Topic starter
 

Hello,

600 is quite on the low side, may I ask who you sent it to?

Also, for your review are you looking at a copy from the master, or a copy of a copy, or even a generation further?

Was this being recorded from a recorder placed on the table, or from a video camera and then you get the audio from that camera.

Lastly, what did the findings you received say about the point in time from the tape and how it looked on the spectrograph at that moment.

£600 was the cost of providing a mini report that I hoped would show enough signs of editing in order to get the RAF Police standards department to investigate my complaint. Audio Forensic Services carried out the work and I am not sure if a spectrograph was carried out.

It was recorded with a PACE cassette recorder on a desk, and I believe edited straight after, (the audio interview edited and a new time signature added).

It should be a copy of one of the two original tapes (not the sealed master) but the working tape. If you listen to it, there are clicks and audio dropouts.

The report PDF can be downloaded here
http//www.yousendit.com/download/TEhYS3hheFhRR2VFTmNUQw

The wav file can be downloaded here
http//www.yousendit.com/download/TEhYS3hheFhwTVdGa2NUQw

 
Posted : 12/08/2012 12:05 pm
(@armresl)
Posts: 1011
Noble Member
 

Hi Hippo,

I read the report, the gear he has is rather old, and the software is not something that most all the audio forensic guys I know and have dealt with use. It did say he used the built in spectrum analyzer and noted the 2 drops on the tape.

Can't find anything about the PACE recorder in Google, except this
My police interview tapes have been edited!!! - Digital Forensics ..

If it was someone doing my case, I'd want them to check for AM and see if there was anything recoverable on the edges.

Hello,

600 is quite on the low side, may I ask who you sent it to?

Also, for your review are you looking at a copy from the master, or a copy of a copy, or even a generation further?

Was this being recorded from a recorder placed on the table, or from a video camera and then you get the audio from that camera.

Lastly, what did the findings you received say about the point in time from the tape and how it looked on the spectrograph at that moment.

£600 was the cost of providing a mini report that I hoped would show enough signs of editing in order to get the RAF Police standards department to investigate my complaint. Audio Forensic Services carried out the work and I am not sure if a spectrograph was carried out.

It was recorded with a PACE cassette recorder on a desk, and I believe edited straight after, (the audio interview edited and a new time signature added).

It should be a copy of one of the two original tapes (not the sealed master) but the working tape. If you listen to it, there are clicks and audio dropouts.

The report PDF can be downloaded here
http//www.yousendit.com/download/TEhYS3hheFhRR2VFTmNUQw

The wav file can be downloaded here
http//www.yousendit.com/download/TEhYS3hheFhwTVdGa2NUQw

 
Posted : 13/08/2012 4:40 am
(@thehippo)
Posts: 11
Active Member
Topic starter
 

I will ask them to check for AM, and see if there is anything recoverable at the edges of the tape. Sorry to keep asking questions, but what exactly is am (I am guessing it's not amplitude modulation).

 
Posted : 13/08/2012 11:28 am
(@thehippo)
Posts: 11
Active Member
Topic starter
 

I did ask them to check for AM, and see if there is anything recoverable at the edges of the tape, and if there were anymore checks that could be performed, and at what cost. They stated they have done all that can be done. You live and learn, but I can't help feeling a little bit deflated spending £600 on tests that with the right software I may have been able to perform. I was expecting a different result from the tests, and I'm now purely from an interest point of you tempted to get some software and check the time signature echos are correct.

 
Posted : 13/08/2012 2:53 pm
(@thehippo)
Posts: 11
Active Member
Topic starter
 

I did ask them to check for AM, and see if there is anything recoverable at the edges of the tape, and if there were anymore checks that could be performed, and at what cost. They stated they have done all that can be done. You live and learn, but I can't help feeling a little bit deflated spending £600 on tests that with the right software I may have been able to perform. I was expecting a different result from the tests, and I'm now purely from an interest point of you tempted to get some software and check the time signature echos are correct.

 
Posted : 13/08/2012 4:35 pm
(@armresl)
Posts: 1011
Noble Member
 

Hiya,

Azimuth misalignment = AM

Older cassette players can have you do it manually and it's pretty cool (OK cool for geeky people like me) If you ever run across an old Nakamichi tape player "Dragon" then it has that feature.

I will ask them to check for AM, and see if there is anything recoverable at the edges of the tape. Sorry to keep asking questions, but what exactly is am (I am guessing it's not amplitude modulation).

 
Posted : 14/08/2012 2:38 am
(@lgc_av_dept)
Posts: 2
New Member
 

I have read the report and there is no indication of any evidence being found to suggest editing has taken place. Having said that, no suggestion has been offered as to the cause of the drop-outs. The standard recording apparatus for interviews of this type would be a twin record deck, both decks recording the same signal during the interview. On completion one copy would be sealed (the Master) and the other kept as the Working Copy. The RAF police should still have the original if they follow normal ACPO retention guidelines of keeping evidence for a minimum of seven years, although the RAF may have their own rules.

Having briefly listened to the audio, I also don’t necessarily agree with the findings of the report which state that

4) 000157.342 – 000157.981 Spectrogram shows a drop out of 000000.639 of a second on the left channel of which contains the conversation between two male speakers. On the right channel the automated clock count is continuous and shows no breaks in its recording.

5) 001441.441 – 001442.974 Spectrogram shows a drop out of 000001.533 seconds on the left channel of which contains the conversation between two male speakers. On the right channel the automated clock count is continuous and shows no breaks in its recording.

The drop-out at 000157.342 – 000157.981 occurs on both channels, the right hand channel DOES also indicate a break, albeit very short!

I don’t believe there is a dropout between 001441.441 – 001442.974, a gap in the dialogue, perhaps natural, yes, but no drop-out.

The discrepancy noted in the timings between the recording and that timing given by the Sony Soundforge Software could be easily due to tolerances in either record speed, playback speed or both of the tape recording and playback equipment used. Some high end tape decks have a speed (Pitch) control to allow the transport speed to be changed. This can be used to compensate, if necessary, for any inaccuracy in recording speed, if such existed.

It may well be advisable to consult a solicitor and have them instruct a company such as ourselves to undertake a comparison between the Original and the Working Copy, should you wish to take this further. A court order can be sought to gain access to the Original; however this will not necessarily be a cheap option, as Court Costs can mount up unless you can be legally aided. Again a solicitor would be the best person to advice on this.

I would not suggest getting software to undertake this work yourself, since a) you have not indicated having any experience or qualifications in this area and any barrister would be able to pull any evidence submitted by you to pieces due to your lack of experience and qualifications, and b) You would not be seen as impartial!

Hope this helps.

 
Posted : 14/08/2012 7:17 pm
(@thehippo)
Posts: 11
Active Member
Topic starter
 

Thank you very much for your help, but I don't think I am eligible for legal aid and the conviction is soon to be spent so I don't intend to undergo court action, I just want to know the truth. I have downloaded a free piece of software called sonic visualiser purely for my own interest but I am unable to find any bleed through time signature beeps on the left hand channel (probably due to lack of skill on my part, and the fact the software may not be designed for that purpose). I find your line of work very interesting although profess to knowing very little.

I am just frustrated that the RAF police will not acknowledge any wrong doing when it sounds so obvious to me. I suppose you gentlemen and ladies are only concerned with evidence and any thoughts of if it sounds right do not matter if there is no tangible evidence of editing then there is no case. I can't help feeling that this happens more frequently in the forces and will happen again to someone else.

Unfortunately I am beginning to resign myself that without spending a fortune I will have to let this go… When I was in the RAF, there was a saying "it's the Air Force, not the Fair Force" and maybe I should accept it and move on.

 
Posted : 15/08/2012 12:05 am
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