±Forensic Focus Partners

Become an advertising partner

±Your Account


Username
Password

Forgotten password/username?

Site Members:

New Today: 2 Overall: 36006
New Yesterday: 0 Visitors: 128

±Follow Forensic Focus

Forensic Focus Facebook PageForensic Focus on TwitterForensic Focus LinkedIn GroupForensic Focus YouTube Channel

RSS feeds: News Forums Articles

±Latest Articles

±Latest Videos

±Latest Jobs

The rates of pay

Discussion of computer forensics employment and career issues.
Reply to topicReply to topic Printer Friendly Page
Forum FAQSearchView unanswered posts
Page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4 ... 10, 11, 12  Next 
  

trewmte
Senior Member
 

Re: The rates of pay

Post Posted: Oct 06, 12 13:12

Great replies to this thread. Thanks for joining in.

- armresl
....actually stumped on something so basic.....


Without speaking out about that situation, how will it get remedied?

- armresl
So what do they do, go immediately to the forums and ask. Then call the client with that answer without testing it or anything.


And that happens whether the person has an educational degree or not. Equally, whether s/he works in the public or private sector.

How many Politicians have we all found that make statements, which later the facts stated in them turn out to be statements which simply could not be true, that had been found to be cribbed from the interent, twitter, facebook or other sources; perhaps reference to the rumblings of "dodgy dossier" and "war" is but one example.

----

The monetary factor is a focal point and there is an argument, but at the other end of the scale, where a person/company charges a low fee and still produces erroneous opinion/evidence. Is there any objection to that happening? By way of illustration, say the production of a "set fee" report that simply agrees with the other side - is that honest or the right thing to do?


The internet can be a powerful tool to be used for educational good. So if I were reading this thread for the first time and wanted to understand my value in the marketplace would it be essential in formulating how I see my worth to identify the distinctions about charging that fall between

- self-employed -v- employed?
- experience -v- inexperience
- private charges -v- public purse charges
- objective charging -v- subjective charging (is this one possible)?

Any additional titles or subsets for a particular title you can think of?
_________________
Institute for Digital Forensics (IDF) - www.linkedin.com/groups/2436720
Mobile Telephone Examination Board (MTEB) - www.linkedin.com/groups/141739
Universal Network Investigations - www.linkedin.com/groups/13536130
Mobile Telephone Evidence & Forensics trewmte.blogspot.com 
 
  

jaclaz
Senior Member
 

Re: The rates of pay

Post Posted: Oct 06, 12 18:31

I have some difficulties with the math. Shocked

I guess everyone of the pro's here has before or later whined a bit about the long hours of work.

365-2*52-(say) 40=221 (which is sound as at least here in Italy we conventionally calculate days of actual work per year in 220 days/year).
220*8=1760 hours/year
Since the issue is "long hours", I would say that 220*10=2200 hours/year could be reasonable, but let's go "midway", at 2000 hors/year.

Are you telling me that most of the experienced guys here do actually have a (gross) income of around US$ 250*2000=500,000 or more?

jaclaz
_________________
- In theory there is no difference between theory and practice, but in practice there is. - 
 
  

jhup
Senior Member
 

Re: The rates of pay

Post Posted: Oct 07, 12 09:18

The rates i quoted are not full time employment, contract rates.

It is a trade off. Make larger hourly rates, but may not be full time employed versus full time employed but get lower rates. One has huge upside chance but just as much downside. The other offers less downside, but limited to no upside.  
 
  

armresl
Senior Member
 

Re: The rates of pay

Post Posted: Oct 07, 12 09:49

Someone might get a case in the private sector if they are solo and work 10 hours on the case for a $4k draw. If they are working for a big firm, they work the same hours, might be getting billed very close to the same rate, except the examiner is working for 60-80k at the firm with guaranteed weekly check.

- jaclaz
I have some difficulties with the math. Shocked

I guess everyone of the pro's here has before or later whined a bit about the long hours of work.

365-2*52-(say) 40=221 (which is sound as at least here in Italy we conventionally calculate days of actual work per year in 220 days/year).
220*8=1760 hours/year
Since the issue is "long hours", I would say that 220*10=2200 hours/year could be reasonable, but let's go "midway", at 2000 hors/year.

Are you telling me that most of the experienced guys here do actually have a (gross) income of around US$ 250*2000=500,000 or more?

jaclaz

_________________
Why order a taco when you can ask it politely?

Alan B. "A man can live a good life, be honorable, give to charity, but in the end, the number of people who come to his funeral is generally dependent on the weather. " 
 
  

trewmte
Senior Member
 

Re: The rates of pay

Post Posted: Oct 07, 12 13:23

- armresl
the examiner is working for 60-80k at the firm with guaranteed weekly check.


Well at the lower $60,000 p.a. that still equates to over £37,000.00 (UK) which is considerably higher (and reveals a large disparity) in comparison to the average UK counterparts.
_________________
Institute for Digital Forensics (IDF) - www.linkedin.com/groups/2436720
Mobile Telephone Examination Board (MTEB) - www.linkedin.com/groups/141739
Universal Network Investigations - www.linkedin.com/groups/13536130
Mobile Telephone Evidence & Forensics trewmte.blogspot.com 
 
  

jaclaz
Senior Member
 

Re: The rates of pay

Post Posted: Oct 07, 12 17:51

Well, what I tried to introduce as they were not evident - at least to me - till now are the concepts of:
  1. billable hours
  2. full vs. partial occupation
  3. work procurement
  4. total hours of payed work per year (which translates to gross income)

Since I don't believe that anyone here (or maybe a very few, elected, exceptionally capable and possibly also a bit lucky, ones) in the private/consulting sectors actually makes half a million bucks a year, it makes little sense to provide "partial" data (i.e. reasonable hourly fee without specifying how much work one can normally expect to get AND how much do you actually have as expenses - still yearly).

Till now it seemed that if you got a job in a company you could expect anything from US$ 40,000 to US$ 80,000 and maybe, if you are one of the few elected one US$ 100,000÷120,000.
Which puts the "top" at the most at three times the "base" wage.
Conversely, the "base" income for a "private/consultant" should be 1/3 of the "top" US$ 500,000, i.e. around US$ 160.000.

It seems to me like these latter numbers are very far from reality.

Without having people disclosing personal data, maybe we could put up FIVE polls (which are in themselves "anonymous") similar to these:
#1 reserved to "employed" forensic experts "voting" how many hours per year they actually work
#2 still reserved to the above "voting" in which range is their gross income
#3 reserved to "freelance/solo" forensic experts "voting" how many hours per year they actually work/how many of them are "billable"
#4 still reserved to the above "voting" in which range is their gross income
#5 still reserved to the above "voting" in which range is their expenses

This way we could have some valid data, otherwise, more than comparing apples with oranges, which BTW is allright, see Wink :
improbable.com/airchiv...pples.html
we are comparing peas with watermelons Shocked .

jaclaz
_________________
- In theory there is no difference between theory and practice, but in practice there is. - 
 
  

trewmte
Senior Member
 

Re: The rates of pay

Post Posted: Oct 07, 12 19:27

- jaclaz
Well, what I tried to introduce as they were not evident - at least to me - till now are the concepts of:
  1. billable hours
  2. full vs. partial occupation
  3. work procurement
  4. total hours of payed work per year (which translates to gross income)


And you did. Are these separate headings or subsets to main headings?


- jaclaz
Without having people disclosing personal data, maybe we could put up FIVE polls (which are in themselves "anonymous") similar to these:
#1 reserved to "employed" forensic experts "voting" how many hours per year they actually work
#2 still reserved to the above "voting" in which range is their gross income
#3 reserved to "freelance/solo" forensic experts "voting" how many hours per year they actually work/how many of them are "billable"
#4 still reserved to the above "voting" in which range is their gross income
#5 still reserved to the above "voting" in which range is their expenses


What is your modus operandi for this? Are you endeavouring to (a) understand the worth/value of a person's service (employed/self-employed) to understand whether s/he is under-paid/charging incorrectly/value met or are you (b) wanting to find out what work actually exists out there? The two (a/b) are not naturally or mutually connected because for the latter one firm may not have as much work as another or one country maybe in recession where as another country maybe in an economic upturn. Moreover, one set of employees may not be subjected to the exposure of loads of casework but may only do several cases but have greater time to deliberate in the work. Alternatively, I know of groups who ran "battery-farm" mobile phone examinations thus produced a high number of cases and paid these people a minimum wage; the result was quantity out-put (but not necessarily quality) based upon push-button forensic (apparently) examination.

Within the above conditions how would apples and oranges be applicable to this discussion when it is more likely what is being referred to is different apples types e.g. pippin, golden delicious, russet, braeburn etc and then which apples are found to be rotten in the proverbial barrel?

Surely this philosophical investigation seeks to understand working "worth" of the individual to establish working "chargeable value" as opposed to introducing psychological subjective fears e.g. no one is ever going to pay me that or there is no work to achieve those results and so on.

I do fully respect there is an argument that can be raised, that of "worth" to "value" can be subjective.
_________________
Institute for Digital Forensics (IDF) - www.linkedin.com/groups/2436720
Mobile Telephone Examination Board (MTEB) - www.linkedin.com/groups/141739
Universal Network Investigations - www.linkedin.com/groups/13536130
Mobile Telephone Evidence & Forensics trewmte.blogspot.com 
 

Page 3 of 12
Page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4 ... 10, 11, 12  Next