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ISO 17025 for Digital Forensics – Yay or Nay?

Computer forensics discussion. Please ensure that your post is not better suited to one of the forums below (if it is, please post it there instead!)
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What do you support for the Digital Forensics Community?

6
9%

42
67%

5
8%

9
14%

 
Total Votes: 62

  

Re: ISO 17025 for Digital Forensics – Yay or Nay?

Post Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 5:09 pm

Yes, all good points.

If you take these points further, there is a danger that 17025 could have exaclty the opposite effect than desired: that evidence produced by accredited labs is automatically assumed to be sound and, therefore, not challenged (as 17025 is seen as a stamp of quality)

I can easily see that members of the Commons Tech committee would be lead down this route as would the media. Also, how many lawyers and barristers have a decent grasp of the situation and will just look for "17025" within the witness statement?

another article:

www.theguardian.com/la...are_btn_tw  

pbeardmore
Senior Member
 
 
  

Re: ISO 17025 for Digital Forensics – Yay or Nay?

Post Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:33 am

- pbeardmore
Yes, all good points.

If you take these points further, there is a danger that 17025 could have exaclty the opposite effect than desired: that evidence produced by accredited labs is automatically assumed to be sound and, therefore, not challenged (as 17025 is seen as a stamp of quality)

I can easily see that members of the Commons Tech committee would be lead down this route as would the media. Also, how many lawyers and barristers have a decent grasp of the situation and will just look for "17025" within the witness statement?

another article:

www.theguardian.com/la...are_btn_tw



This is obviously a very real concern. The facts of accreditation should always be at the forefront of any discussion. A disingenuous conversation about accreditation actually undercuts those who are for and those who may be against the idea because it is not accurately addressing what is real and what is hyperbole or flat out wrong...on both sides of the debate.

As far as the articles being shared, it should be apparent that this is not a simple as the media would make it seem. For instance, these articles may seem to be blowing up on their face about digital evidence, when in reality it was/is a break down in the investigative and disclosure process between prosecution and defense. You wouldn't know that if you only got the headline. Obviously, this is typical media behavior in headline drafting but any breakdown like this invariably ripples out. This kind of incident is not unique to DF, but to all disciplines where such a breakdown occurs. For example, in the States, this kind of thing can be problematic with rape and sexual assault cases with the rape kits and DNA testing. Breakdowns with these cases are always front page news.

Has anyone (UK) given any thought to next steps in the wake of these events? I think whether you are for or against accreditation it is moot at this juncture. It seems more appropriate to seek accurate representation and facilitate a better standard by which DF work is assessed. Otherwise, it could be downhill from here...
_________________
Preston Coleman, MFS, GCFE, EnCE

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing" - Edmund Burke 

pcstopper18
Senior Member
 
 
  

Re: ISO 17025 for Digital Forensics – Yay or Nay?

Post Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:51 am

"Has anyone (UK) given any thought to next steps in the wake of these events?"

Having members of the Commons Science and Tech Committee who have a decent basic grounding in the issues would be good?

PS
cyfor.co.uk/forensics-...nsic-labs/  

pbeardmore
Senior Member
 
 
  

Re: ISO 17025 for Digital Forensics – Yay or Nay?

Post Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 3:39 pm

As a side-side note, meanwhile in Canada:
reason.com/blog/2018/0...m-was-junk
www.attorneygeneral.ju...pubs/lang/

I might be wrong, but between the lines of the actual report, I seem to be reading (in bold, red letters):
"This wouldn't have happened if the laboratory had been certified according to ISO 17025".

Q.E.D.

jaclaz
_________________
- In theory there is no difference between theory and practice, but in practice there is. - 

jaclaz
Senior Member
 
 
  

Re: ISO 17025 for Digital Forensics – Yay or Nay?

Post Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 2:05 am

- jaclaz
As a side-side note, meanwhile in Canada:
reason.com/blog/2018/0...m-was-junk
www.attorneygeneral.ju...pubs/lang/

I might be wrong, but between the lines of the actual report, I seem to be reading (in bold, red letters):
"This wouldn't have happened if the laboratory had been certified according to ISO 17025".

Q.E.D.

jaclaz


I'm not sure it is the worst idea for 'wet' forensics, which is probably why the FSR has regulated it.
It's just the sweeping generalization where digital is put in with 'other' forensics that makes it a problem.
That said, all I have to say is 'Randox' to show its not going to stop miscarriages of justice.
Actually, our closest counterparts, forensic accountants are excluded from ISO 17025  

minime2k9
Senior Member
 
 
  

Re: ISO 17025 for Digital Forensics – Yay or Nay?

Post Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 4:28 am

- minime2k9

I'm not sure it is the worst idea for 'wet' forensics, which is probably why the FSR has regulated it.

Actually I am pretty sure that ISO17025 is a good thing for "wet forensics", AND NOT a "bad thing" for "digital forensics"[1], the issue (as I see it) is only about the false assumption:
certified ISO17025=surely no sloppy work
or:
certified ISO17025=solution for all issues

jaclaz


[1] If it was properly applicable to it, which isn't.
_________________
- In theory there is no difference between theory and practice, but in practice there is. - 

jaclaz
Senior Member
 
 
  

Re: ISO 17025 for Digital Forensics – Yay or Nay?

Post Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 3:43 pm

And now, for no apparent reason, a couple instructive videos on Vimeo Shocked :
vimeo.com/243645429
vimeo.com/234514957

jaclaz
_________________
- In theory there is no difference between theory and practice, but in practice there is. - 

jaclaz
Senior Member
 
 

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