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Chip off or JTAG

Discussion of forensic issues related to all types of mobile phones and underlying technologies (GSM, GPRS, UMTS/3G, HSDPA, LTE, Bluetooth etc.)
Subforums: Mobile Telephone Case Law
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Chip off or JTAG, which would you choose?

7
30%

16
69%

 
Total Votes: 23

  

DCS1094
Senior Member
 

Re: Chip off or JTAG

Post Posted: Jan 21, 14 22:21

- jaclaz
Anyway, the "general" point is that give or take these US$ 500-600, we do agree that with around US$ 10,000 one can have the full equipment needed to do both Chipoff and JTAG, on a very vast array of devices, which is substantially different from the starting £200K stated in the OP, which was, is and remains "a crazy amount of money", not entirely unlike a number of cases where the Governement and/or the Military pay awful lots of money for something that can be replaced with something with the same or similar functionalities for much less


Yes agreed! ...we finally got there! Wink

...still, it would be cool to see a 200k Chip-Off/JTAG LAB setup!! Cool  
 
  

jaclaz
Senior Member
 

Re: Chip off or JTAG

Post Posted: Jan 22, 14 01:17

- DCS1094

Yes agreed! ...we finally got there! Wink

...still, it would be cool to see a 200k Chip-Off/JTAG LAB setup!! Cool

Yep Smile , while waiting I can offer you an unrelated non-cheap (but cool) command room Wink :
www.theguardian.com/co...-star-trek

Having automatic doors that make a 'whoosh' sound when they slide open and close is most probably one of the most well kept secret dream of many.

jaclaz
_________________
- In theory there is no difference between theory and practice, but in practice there is. - 
 
  

jhup
Senior Member
 

Re: Chip off or JTAG

Post Posted: Jan 22, 14 01:30

The problem is rarely getting data off of the chips be it chip-off or JTAG.

The real headache (fun) begins when it needs decyphering.  
 
  

DCS1094
Senior Member
 

Re: Chip off or JTAG

Post Posted: Jan 22, 14 05:07

- jaclaz
Yep Smile , while waiting I can offer you an unrelated non-cheap (but cool) command room Wink :
www.theguardian.com/co...-star-trek

Having automatic doors that make a 'whoosh' sound when they slide open and close is most probably one of the most well kept secret dream of many.

jaclaz


Now that is what I call a command center! You would fit a large rework bench in there!

- jhup
The problem is rarely getting data off of the chips be it chip-off or JTAG.

The real headache (fun) begins when it needs decyphering.



I find Physical Analyser tends to handle the raw data extracted pretty well when decoding certain model types. Alternatively, EnCase is even an option to locate specific artifacts if analysing the HEX.  
 
  

mark_adp
Senior Member
 

Re: Chip off or JTAG

Post Posted: Jan 28, 14 11:19

I agree, I believe 200k+ is likely to include equipment for a complete chip-off and repair solution.

The problem is rarely getting data off of the chips be it chip-off or JTAG.

The real headache (fun) begins when it needs deciphering.


I agree, this can be fun or horribly frustrating depending on the complexity of the setup (encryption, wear-levelling, custom FS, compression, and all of the above!)  
 
  

jaclaz
Senior Member
 

Re: Chip off or JTAG

Post Posted: Jan 28, 14 16:11

- mark_adp
I agree, I believe 200k+ is likely to include equipment for a complete chip-off and repair solution.

AND the building hosting the lab as Bulldawg hinted before Rolling Eyes :
www.forensicfocus.com/...7/#6570357

Member sideshow018 would probably be willing to setup for you between 5 and 10 of such laboratories (excluding the building) and provide the "full" training to 5-20 people for UK£ 200,000, which means 330,000 US$...

jaclaz
_________________
- In theory there is no difference between theory and practice, but in practice there is. - 
 
  

mark_adp
Senior Member
 

Re: Chip off or JTAG

Post Posted: Feb 12, 15 19:42

Just wanted to add my 2 cents to this topic.

Like many of you i'm sure, I have done JTAG and chip-off with minimal equipment and off course it is possible to do it without a microscope, without a pre heater and it can work without a problem, but we should be able to show consistency, and be able to record the processes we have carried out on these devices. It's all ok, until something goes wrong.

I would always recommend a pre heat and top heat solution that allows for a pre programmed, controlled heat profile to be tested and developed. This is useful as it controls the temperature using thermo couples (ideally both on the PCB and the IC itself), and allows for you to record, accurately the temperature your device is each second. These thermo couples can be yearly calibrated to ensure they are functioning correctly. You can also buy IR thermo couples to use along side your heat gun and control the temp using the heat gun controls, or simply by increasing the distance from the gun to the IC.

I think ultimately, you can do chip-off at little cost, but the more you spend the more controls you can put into place to make the process safer and more consistent. Using IR heat for example allows for a much more controlled, targeted heating of the IC, but is a lot more expensive than a standard head gun/heat rework.

There are tools too that are cheap and open source for JTAG, for example www.openjtag.org/

An alternative to using an X-Ray machine for finding JTAG points could be JTAGulator device, this tool cycles through 24 different probes that you can place onto your board to find JTAG points. It's $170.  
 

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