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CP Question

Computer forensics discussion. Please ensure that your post is not better suited to one of the forums below (if it is, please post it there instead!)
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calimelo
Senior Member
 

CP Question

Post Posted: Sep 29, 08 08:45

Hi,

I'd like to hear your comments on CP investigation process. I read lots of stuff on this area but i still couldn't find out answers.

For example, in a case you find photos which made you think they are CP. How can you be really sure if they are really CP? Precise age determination from photos is impossible. What if the person in the photo is 18 not 17,5? Is it really important to determine the exact age?

As far as i know sexual growth is different in different ethnicities and is affected by chronic diseases, nutrition factors, drugs etc. Tanner staging is limited too. Plastic surgery and cosmetic corrections change everything.
I'm not even mentioning photo manipulation software.

Of course a method is database comparison using file signatures. But isn't it very very limited? Even resizing a picture makes a new hash value.

Do medical professionals examine these pictures with computer forensics specialists? Or is it ok if a medical doctor says "Yes these photos are CP"?

Regards

Kaan
_________________
"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication." 
 
  

jgoss
Senior Member
 

Re: CP Question

Post Posted: Sep 29, 08 09:02

The way we do it in our department is that we look at a proposed indecent image and we say "Could this person be 18"

If there is any doubt, then the image is discarded  
 
  

brede
Senior Member
 

Re: CP Question

Post Posted: Sep 29, 08 10:48

We are writing sentence that this person on a photo is most likely under 18..but precise age can be identified by another specialist (sexologist)  
 
  

u2bigman
Member
 

Re: CP Question

Post Posted: Sep 29, 08 12:37

For grins you might want to check out this case:

tinyurl.com/3jf4lb

Also, google "Melissa Bertsch," an adult actress, about whom the following was written:

===

Bertsch has already given proof of her age in five American prosecutions. "One time I did go to court; I flew to Hawaii and testified in front of a jury and a judge," she said. "They dropped all the charges after I testified. In the other cases they dropped everything once I made a statement and provided proof of my ID."

===  
 
  

tabz
Member
 

Re: CP Question

Post Posted: Sep 30, 08 02:54

In our department we follow two guidelines. One is that if you are unsure if the subject is under 18 then they probably aren't. The second, and most important, is we take the photo in context of the rest of the evidence/images. Look for other indicators such as web browsing history, other photos other than CP that might indicate an inclination toward children or documents/books/emails that sexualise children. It's tricky and unfortunately you can only become adept through experience. Its best to use a computer forensic expert who has experience to help you out.  
 
  

jeffcaplan
Senior Member
 

Re: CP Question

Post Posted: Sep 30, 08 05:27

Suspected images are typically brought to a medical doctor with sufficient education and training regarding anatomy & physiology to gauge the age of an individual based on factors such as the development of the sex glands, ratio of body part lengths, etc. who will then sign an affidavit stating that X images are of CP.


Jeff
_________________
CISSP, EnCE, CCE, Security+, MCP, etc. etc.

"Show me a person's computer and I'll show you their soul." 
 
  

calimelo
Senior Member
 

Re: CP Question

Post Posted: Oct 01, 08 06:13

Thank you all for the answers. Putting all the evidence and correlate them is a good option bur we usually receive cd/dvds only containing pictures.

Physiological and anatomical sexual development can be affected by many factors. The link u2bigman shared is a real world example of this.

I'm a medical doctor and i'm really confused about how easily IT specialists report CP cases. I agree with jgoss but this does not help at all.

Perhaps establishing a committee with IT people and forensic medicine specialists, pediatricians and psychiatrists and letting them comment on these cases is a suggestion.

Regards

Kaan
_________________
"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication." 
 

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