Chip off or JTAG
 
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Chip off or JTAG

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4Rensics
(@4rensics)
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Topic starter
 

So, more of a general discussion, but our forensic team is looking to move into one of these ( or both ) areas.

At the moment we are torn. Obviously costs are a concern and having just attended F3 I saw an eye opening talk from the Canadian Mounted Police (I forget his name, sorry) and he was talking about £200k and upwards for equipment.

What would people choose and what are people thoughts on either of the solutions.

Personally, I think JTAG is cheaper and obviously less destructive and would be my choice.

4Rensics

PS. If you were there, I didn't win the iPad! (But I did win something…) 😉

 
Posted : 08/11/2013 9:00 pm
jaclaz
(@jaclaz)
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…. he was talking about £200k and upwards for equipment.

Does that include the nuclear posimegatranscontrasuperfragilistic accelerator ? ?

Sorry to interfere with your poll, but I would like to see a list of equipment that sums up to UK£ 200,000 (and upwards) that is actually needed. 😯

jaclaz

 
Posted : 08/11/2013 10:01 pm
Bulldawg
(@bulldawg)
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Maybe that includes the building.

 
Posted : 08/11/2013 11:12 pm
DCS1094
(@dcs1094)
Posts: 146
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…. he was talking about £200k and upwards for equipment.

Does that include the nuclear posimegatranscontrasuperfragilistic accelerator ? ?

Sorry to interfere with your poll, but I would like to see a list of equipment that sums up to UK£ 200,000 (and upwards) that is actually needed. 😯

jaclaz

I 2nd jaclaz comment - must be some setup to justify 200k's worth of equipment!!

I'm guessing their setup accommodates for every possibility with chips including if the chip is damaged and the bonding wires need replacement/realigning. I am aware of Chip Programmers that cost in region of 75k, however you can get ones cheaper that do the job!

…having said all that, chip-off all the way! 8)

 
Posted : 08/11/2013 11:15 pm
bartekdre
(@bartekdre)
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First JTAG. Where JTAG is not enough you have to do Chip off. simple.

 
Posted : 09/11/2013 2:25 am
jhup
 jhup
(@jhup)
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How often do you get damaged devices?

JTAG if you get more un- or slightly damaged devices.

 
Posted : 11/11/2013 9:16 am
4Rensics
(@4rensics)
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Topic starter
 

I'm guessing their setup accommodates for every possibility with chips including if the chip is damaged and the bonding wires need replacement/realigning.

I think this could be it.

It was beyond ridiculous. They had ultra (something) scanning equipment to see into the chips (basically xrays)

They were repairing the wiring on the boards, everything. It was crazy! (super cool, but crazy!)

If I can find the slides from the conference I will put them up for download.

 
Posted : 11/11/2013 3:50 pm
ddewildt
(@ddewildt)
Posts: 123
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If I can find the slides from the conference I will put them up for download.

Which, it goes without saying, you would only do once you get permission from both F3 and Dan (the presenter) at RCMP.

I think the point of the talk was to say to people that its not just a case of whipping off the chip, connecting it up and away you go with the data. You need to know what you are doing. The reason they use all that equipment is so that they make sure they are not damaging things as they go along.

I have no experience in either area, but the thing I took away from the presentation was that you need to make sure whoever is doing it knows the potential damage they can cause.

 
Posted : 11/11/2013 5:04 pm
DCS1094
(@dcs1094)
Posts: 146
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I think the point of the talk was to say to people that its not just a case of whipping off the chip, connecting it up and away you go with the data. You need to know what you are doing. The reason they use all that equipment is so that they make sure they are not damaging things as they go along.

I have no experience in either area, but the thing I took away from the presentation was that you need to make sure whoever is doing it knows the potential damage they can cause.

Hit the nail on the head!

It's not as simple as it looks and a lot of things can go wrong, but if done correctly the results can be well worth it. There's many different setups/rework stations and additional equipment (such as auxiliary camera's etc) which cater for different situations with different devices. Always best to do a lot of testing/research first before you invest, to find the methods which suite your needs.

 
Posted : 11/11/2013 5:38 pm
jaclaz
(@jaclaz)
Posts: 5133
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It's not as simple as it looks and a lot of things can go wrong, but if done correctly the results can be well worth it. There's many different setups/rework stations and additional equipment (such as auxiliary camera's etc) which cater for different situations with different devices.

Still, I would like to see a simple list that sums up to 200 K pounds.
(it is still - in my simplicity - an awful lot of money)

jaclaz

 
Posted : 11/11/2013 7:01 pm
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