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jaclaz
(@jaclaz)
Community Legend

http//www.ibreakityoufixit.com/shop/wp-forensics-kit

Kits can be bought through Teel Tech Canada or USA as well, make sure you specify your power specs, 110 or 220 before hand.

I see, thanks ) .

I would have said "less than 700 US$" but didn't take into account some of the tools included into that kit

  • Wild PCS stereo microscope
  • USB pen digital microscope
  • Ultrasonic cleaning machine
  • Pre heater station CO853
  • DC power supply 80

which should cost around US$ 500-600.

Which however are more "repair" than "pure chip-off", IMHO.

jaclaz

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Posted : 20/01/2014 9:16 pm
sideshow018
(@sideshow018)
Member

The kit is for both JTAG and Chipoff. Chipoff, for obvious reasons, you will not be repairing phones, but for JTAG, you need a working phone to complete the process, thus the repair equipment. Students are taught repair in the Teel Tech JTAG class. No point trying to JTAG a phone if it does not work (-

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Posted : 20/01/2014 11:11 pm
jaclaz
(@jaclaz)
Community Legend

The kit is for both JTAG and Chipoff. Chipoff, for obvious reasons, you will not be repairing phones, but for JTAG, you need a working phone to complete the process, thus the repair equipment. Students are taught repair in the Teel Tech JTAG class. No point trying to JTAG a phone if it does not work (-

Sure ) , but normally a seized phone is working and it is not like adding/soldering a few wires (if a clip/connector is not available) for JTAG is going to (or should normally) "break" the phone, I mean good to have those, in case of need, but possibly not "basic requirement", on a strict budget.

If you prefer, how often do you use the pre-heater or the (stereo) microscope?

Like, you know

  • "on every device"
  • "on one out of 33" 😯 devices
  • "never used but once after JTAG class"

wink

And besides the "same" Wild PCS course for "advanced" board repair is 3 days, if I get this right the TeelTech LEO courses somehow "compress" board repair into 1 or one and a half days.

jaclaz

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Posted : 21/01/2014 12:52 am
sideshow018
(@sideshow018)
Member

Hmmm, keep in mind, we do get broken phones from bad guys, they break them just before arrest, they throw them in water just before arrest, phone are subject to other cases like arsons where they are found damaged, etc. In same cases, the bad guy has an old broken phone in the residence and has moved on to a new phone, might have dated evidence on that. Normal wear and tear, USB port broken, screen broken, digitizer broken, etc. Not ever phone that Police seize is a fully functioning phone.

Having cell phone repair skills and tools is an asset for every mobile forensics lab.

Pre-heater - used on 90% of Chipoff phones
Microscope - used on 90% of Chipoff to examine pinouts and 90% of JTAG to examine your solder work.

The kit has been condensed to the most important and used items from all the tools that they/we sell.

The full cell phone repair course is 5 days, we condense the most important stuff for our purposes in 2 days for the JTAG class, you get less than a day for the Chipoff class.

If you want to learn the whole process and get certified, then you should take the 5 day Cell Phone Repair class.

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Posted : 21/01/2014 1:57 am
JaniN
(@janin)
New Member

The kit is for both JTAG and Chipoff. Chipoff, for obvious reasons, you will not be repairing phones, but for JTAG, you need a working phone to complete the process, thus the repair equipment. Students are taught repair in the Teel Tech JTAG class. No point trying to JTAG a phone if it does not work (-

JTAG should still work if for instance just the screen is broken. So even if the phone looks dead, it might be possible to JTAG.

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Posted : 21/01/2014 1:29 pm
jaclaz
(@jaclaz)
Community Legend

The kit has been condensed to the most important and used items from all the tools that they/we sell.

Good. )
As a side note, the "they/we" might require a "full disclosure statement" on your part ? .

Mind you I am not saying that the kit is in any way "wrong" or "not nice" ), only that - without being LE, and without being certified in *anything* 😯 - I have done some repairs and "JTAG unbricking" of cell phones with much less (and much "worse") tools, and I have seen labs of people doing for a living cellphones repair without having a (stereo) microscope or a pre-heater.

I did declare before how I am cheap wink and, as jhup recently posted
http//www.forensicfocus.com/Forums/viewtopic/p=6570435/#6570435

Do not underestimate the Russians, Indians, Pakistanis and Chinese when it comes to hard core chip-off work. I watched third-world lab worker reball a micro-FCBGA with a $2 soldering iron, like as if he was just making a salami sandwich. The result was better looking than something off of a $10K reflow workstation!

Anyway, the "general" point is that give or take these US$ 500-600, we do agree that with around US$ 10,000 one can have the full equipment needed to do both Chipoff and JTAG, on a very vast array of devices, which is substantially different from the starting £200K stated in the OP, which was, is and remains "a crazy amount of money", not entirely unlike a number of cases where the Governement and/or the Military pay awful lots of money for something that can be replaced with something with the same or similar functionalities for much less, it comes to my mind the reknown "NASA pencils" which were paid a mere $128.89 apiece (in 1965) wink
http//www.scientificamerican.com/article/fact-or-fiction-nasa-spen/
http//history.nasa.gov/printFriendly/spacepen.html

jaclaz

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Posted : 21/01/2014 6:44 pm
DCS1094
(@dcs1094)
Active Member

Anyway, the "general" point is that give or take these US$ 500-600, we do agree that with around US$ 10,000 one can have the full equipment needed to do both Chipoff and JTAG, on a very vast array of devices, which is substantially different from the starting £200K stated in the OP, which was, is and remains "a crazy amount of money", not entirely unlike a number of cases where the Governement and/or the Military pay awful lots of money for something that can be replaced with something with the same or similar functionalities for much less

Yes agreed! …we finally got there! wink

…still, it would be cool to see a 200k Chip-Off/JTAG LAB setup!! 8)

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Posted : 21/01/2014 9:21 pm
jaclaz
(@jaclaz)
Community Legend

Yes agreed! …we finally got there! wink

…still, it would be cool to see a 200k Chip-Off/JTAG LAB setup!! 8)

Yep ) , while waiting I can offer you an unrelated non-cheap (but cool) command room wink
http//www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/sep/15/nsa-mind-keith-alexander-star-trek

Having automatic doors that make a 'whoosh' sound when they slide open and close is most probably one of the most well kept secret dream of many.

jaclaz

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Posted : 22/01/2014 12:17 am
jhup
 jhup
(@jhup)
Community Legend

The problem is rarely getting data off of the chips be it chip-off or JTAG.

The real headache (fun) begins when it needs decyphering.

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Posted : 22/01/2014 12:30 am
DCS1094
(@dcs1094)
Active Member

Yep ) , while waiting I can offer you an unrelated non-cheap (but cool) command room wink
http//www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/sep/15/nsa-mind-keith-alexander-star-trek

Having automatic doors that make a 'whoosh' sound when they slide open and close is most probably one of the most well kept secret dream of many.

jaclaz

Now that is what I call a command center! You would fit a large rework bench in there!

The problem is rarely getting data off of the chips be it chip-off or JTAG.

The real headache (fun) begins when it needs decyphering.

I find Physical Analyser tends to handle the raw data extracted pretty well when decoding certain model types. Alternatively, EnCase is even an option to locate specific artifacts if analysing the HEX.

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Posted : 22/01/2014 4:07 am
mark_adp
(@mark_adp)
Member

I agree, I believe 200k+ is likely to include equipment for a complete chip-off and repair solution.

The problem is rarely getting data off of the chips be it chip-off or JTAG.

The real headache (fun) begins when it needs deciphering.

I agree, this can be fun or horribly frustrating depending on the complexity of the setup (encryption, wear-levelling, custom FS, compression, and all of the above!)

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Posted : 28/01/2014 10:19 am
jaclaz
(@jaclaz)
Community Legend

I agree, I believe 200k+ is likely to include equipment for a complete chip-off and repair solution.

AND the building hosting the lab as Bulldawg hinted before roll
http//www.forensicfocus.com/Forums/viewtopic/p=6570357/#6570357

Member sideshow018 would probably be willing to setup for you between 5 and 10 of such laboratories (excluding the building) and provide the "full" training to 5-20 people for UK£ 200,000, which means 330,000 US$…

jaclaz

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Posted : 28/01/2014 3:11 pm
mark_adp
(@mark_adp)
Member

Just wanted to add my 2 cents to this topic.

Like many of you i'm sure, I have done JTAG and chip-off with minimal equipment and off course it is possible to do it without a microscope, without a pre heater and it can work without a problem, but we should be able to show consistency, and be able to record the processes we have carried out on these devices. It's all ok, until something goes wrong.

I would always recommend a pre heat and top heat solution that allows for a pre programmed, controlled heat profile to be tested and developed. This is useful as it controls the temperature using thermo couples (ideally both on the PCB and the IC itself), and allows for you to record, accurately the temperature your device is each second. These thermo couples can be yearly calibrated to ensure they are functioning correctly. You can also buy IR thermo couples to use along side your heat gun and control the temp using the heat gun controls, or simply by increasing the distance from the gun to the IC.

I think ultimately, you can do chip-off at little cost, but the more you spend the more controls you can put into place to make the process safer and more consistent. Using IR heat for example allows for a much more controlled, targeted heating of the IC, but is a lot more expensive than a standard head gun/heat rework.

There are tools too that are cheap and open source for JTAG, for example http//www.openjtag.org/

An alternative to using an X-Ray machine for finding JTAG points could be JTAGulator device, this tool cycles through 24 different probes that you can place onto your board to find JTAG points. It's $170.

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Posted : 12/02/2015 6:42 pm
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