I had my midterm exam in my CF class last night, and afterward, some of the other students and I began considering the idea of employment in computer forensics and the security field in general. There was one basic idea that seemed to have stumped us all about how to get our feet off the ground after our education was completed.
It seems that there are lots of jobs out there, but they're only interested in experienced and certified applicants. This poses a problem because many of the required certifications require documented experience in the field to be qualified to take the exam. Each of us is pursuing a Master's Degree in Information Technology Management and specializing in security and forensics. We're also spending a hefty sum of our (and sometimes our current employer's) money to do so. Only to find that upon graduation, there will be no jobs for we well educated, some may say, "over-educated," professionals.
I've been scouring communities and forums for the best tips to get over this obstacle, and I've got a pretty great looking resume, and I feel like I can interview with the best of them, but if a position requires 5-10 years experience in forensic investigations or a CISSP, I'm wasting bandwidth, and my time, applying.
Does anyone here have any tips on how to get out of this catch-22? I'm doing my best to stand-out and be the best applicant when a position that I'm "qualified" for shows up, but this feels like such a daunting obstacle that I'm hard pressed to continue spending my time and money pursuing my education if it doesn't open some doors.
Thank you for your time and consideration.
Okay, I'll bite… athough I'm sure you could find this here in other posts if you search…
IMO, Some of the things you can consider are corporate programs specifically tailored to new graduates. I know for a fact that Cisco and Verizon (and I'm sure many others) have programs specifically designed to take graduates and give them training in areas such as security as it relates to their business.
Another thing to consider is that many jobs are all about knowing someone. Building your professional network can many times get you around specific requirements. While I do not have a degree, I have gotten several positions which required one only because I did my homework and knew the players involved. Join the local groups, attend related conferences and meet people. Build the relationships you can pull on when you need help.
Above all, I'd say be realistic in your expectations. While a degree is great, I have met/hired many a person who did not have one and could run circles around those who did. Don't expect that without any experience you are going to walk into an MBA-type salary. Be prepared to work for less than what you might want to build that experience. Or work as an intern while you are in school. You might get hired based on that…
Another thing, be prepared for the interview. Nothing like interviewing someone who has a degree and cannot answer even the basics.
Just my 2 cents…
This might not work everywhere, I solved the dilemma by working as a free intern for a local police department's computer crime lab.
When I decided to go into forensics, I contacted all the local Computer Crime Units to see if they would be willing to accept an intern. Based on my general computer experience (and after a background check), I was given a job doing menial labs in the lab (wiping drives, researching issues, etc). Eventually I was allowed to ride shotgun on some cases and run some of the investigative tasks (under the supervision of an Investigator).
It was a good start in the forensic industry and it helped me land a job after my education was done.
JT,
I appreciate the feedback. I'm doing my best to keep myself down-to-earth about what to expect out of the door. I realize how important experience is and don't mean to devalue it, or to say that having the degree automatically makes me better in the field than someone who doesn't.
I like your idea of attending conferences and networking. I've got two lined up in the next couple of months. One is even hosted by my school and basically run by my advisor and TA. I'm really looking forward to it.
Getting an internship or fellowship would be nice, but it's not a feasibility right now, as I'm already a working professional with a 9-5. I'm getting valuable work experience in my current position in the areas of customer service, project management, and consulting skills, but unfortunately, it's not specifically in the security/forensics field, so it feels like a half-measure.
Thanks for taking the time to respond. I'm looking forward to what everyone else has to say.
I was and am in the same position as you. I also am in school and about graduate in June with a BA in CF Nd Network security. I did what one of the guys said already. I smIled a bunch of people and asked for an intern. Paid or unpaid didnt matter. It is the experience that I was after. I've been very fortunate and actually had two internships. The first was paid when I would work on a case doing remedial work. The one I have now is now is not paid at all. The first did pan out as much as I wanted it too.
I also work a full time job Mon-Fri 7-5 but the guy at the intern stays late so I go down after work. I also still go to school full time and have a family. So if you want it then you will find time.
Another thing I am doing is attending the SANS courses that have been paid for out of my own pocket. This will help me by giving me a better foundation than what was taught in school.
Although these are expensive and not everyone can afford them I feel they are worth more inthe long run as the first internship said they would use me mire had I had a cert like the cce.
That's my advice. But then again the both of us will be competing with each other for the same jobs around the country so I can't give all my secrets away.
Okay, I'll bite… athough I'm sure you could find this here in other posts if you search…
IMO, Some of the things you can consider are corporate programs specifically tailored to new graduates. I know for a fact that Cisco and Verizon (and I'm sure many others) have programs specifically designed to take graduates and give them training in areas such as security as it relates to their business.
Another thing to consider is that many jobs are all about knowing someone. Building your professional network can many times get you around specific requirements. While I do not have a degree, I have gotten several positions which required one only because I did my homework and knew the players involved. Join the local groups, attend related conferences and meet people. Build the relationships you can pull on when you need help.
Above all, I'd say be realistic in your expectations. While a degree is great, I have met/hired many a person who did not have one and could run circles around those who did. Don't expect that without any experience you are going to walk into an MBA-type salary. Be prepared to work for less than what you might want to build that experience. Or work as an intern while you are in school. You might get hired based on that…
Another thing, be prepared for the interview. Nothing like interviewing someone who has a degree and cannot answer even the basics.
Just my 2 cents…
I second this. Unfortunately schooling is rarely a substitute for real-world experience - in any field. I think if you're looking at jobs that require 5-10 years experience then you're probably looking at jobs that you aren't qualified for at this time. The reason this is often a requirement is that there are a lot of subtle things people learn on the job that are not taught in a book or classroom. Accepting a job that might pay less than you like but that teaches you the fundamentals of the industry is probably the best route.