Msc advice / Career path

Personally i would say get out there and get any work experince you can related to forensics or the wider IT field. Then see where you are in a couple of years. An MSc with no experience will not give you any more of an advantage in trying to break into the field at entry level.

I agree with 96hz completely! If you look at the job specs on this website for example, they nearly all require a degree in a related field, none of them require or even mention a masters. Furthermore, they all want at least 2-3 years experience in a related discipline, so the sooner you get yourself into the job the better, you can always do an open university course in the future if you feel you need it.

In my opinion, a MSc could be viewed by an employer as a double edged sword… either you failed to get a job the first time round, so you opted for a MSc to fill the time gap until the next graduate recruitment, or that you are not technically proficient enough to do the job and instead prefer the research/academic aspect of the subject.

Hands on experience will always be valued more by an employer than academic achievement! You may know the methodology and procedures required to achieve a specific result, but without the necessary experience to back it up you will be overlooked every time. I have found this from personal experience, I have not had the benefit of onsite data collection as I work for LE who seize the exhibits and then submit them for analysis, so when I attend interviews they always ask what my data collection experience is, my answer is always the same… I haven't done it yet, but I have spoken to numerous indiviudals who have, I know the methodology, I know the areas to be aware of (such as removing data from a country with data protection laws i.e. China) but that is never good enough, they aren't willing to cut some slack and give you the opportunity to show them you can do the job! Also, it is never worth lying about, because you will be found out, so you just have to wait until someone gives you the opportunity to break through your particular glass ceiling.

All the best with whatever route you opt for.

Thanks for the replies guys, problem is i've found most places are asking for 3-5 years experience. I guess it's just a case of waiting for something to pop up. Would you mind me asking you both what your positions are in regards to the field of forensics.

Thanks

Hello,

I am here to be the voice of dissent. If you can afford to do the MSc, go for it. Look at it this way

1 - We'll still be using FAT and NTFS in 2 years, so the principles will be the same.
2 - The job market may be better in 2 years (or may be worse, but that's the risk you take).
3 - It won't hurt to have an MSc on your CV.

While it is true that actual hands-on experience is best, there is absolutely no reason why you shouldn't aim for a higher qualification short of money issues.

So go for it!

- Chris

P.s, I am a Digital Forensic Analyst working for the Police, for what it's worth. )

Greetings.

Personally speaking, my advice would be to go for an MSc, mcintyre.

I will side with Chris_ed in his reasons for suggesting the same to you, and I would add the following

1. With an MSc you're demonstrating that you have at the very least rudimentary (if not damn good) research skills and can not only properly research your chosen field and keep abreast of changes but you're also capable of condensing your findings in the form of well-written reports (and trust me, report writing is a skill that's going the way of the dinosaurs, at the moment, lol). A lot of (extremely well known and respected) companies out there (and I do mean a lot) are nowadays starting to extend their feelers to the academic research community for researchers.

2. When a conference delegate comes out in the planary session of a conference and on his own conference presentation (I was there when that happened) and says that they're researching ways to increase recognition of the skills and "certifications" of LEOs to bring them to academic degree status (because they are losing cases due to better academic qualified opposition expert witnesses), one can easily figure out some advocates of experience and pseudo-certifications over academic qualifications are in deep trouble.

3. Sooner or later, the "certifications" and "experience" bubbles are going to burst (evidence of that can already be seen if one observes such mailing lists as the pen-test and bugtraq (in the netsec field)). When that happens, I, personally, would rather be one of those few in the field (both netsec and DF) with a full set of academic qualifications. -)

Hopefully that helps some more, and please note that I do NOT intend this post to be a flamebait.

Cheers,

George

When I see threads like this I'm so jealous of the eduction options you have in the UK and the US with regards to digital forensics.

In Western Australia there are some university level degrees offered but still really in their infancy over here, and the funny thing is the Police Computer Crime Squad I used to work for was heavily involved in the development of the units (not me personally).

But on topic, I would say a mix of both experience and education is desirable. To the Academics here please don't take offense at my next statement…but….Academics are very good at talking theories and coming up with a million different ways something 'could' happen. However by the time they have drafted their 1400 page thesis a real forensic examiner has not only found the evidence and compiled a short report, they have moved on and are several jobs further down the line.

I was lucky enough to be employed learning in the field while studying at the same time, this is I think the most desirable way, and I would whole heartedly disagree with the statement about the 'experience' and 'certification' bubbles bursting.

Having a degree is a small part of the equation, for the OP I would say seek work while continuing your study. The Masters is desirable, but when it comes down to it nothing more than bragging rights, or possibly a personal pride/achievement thing but means not a lot in the real world.

Incredibly grateful with the replies so far guys, whilst I understand that work experience is probably more ideal in the long run every single job add i've seen so far requires 3-5+ experience.

DarkSYN could I ask what your role is currently in the world of forensics then. I was looking to study this course http//www.dmu.ac.uk/study/courses/postgraduate-courses/forensic-computing-msc.aspx DMU offer you the chance to go out and do 1 years RELEVANT work experience to. Being as this would mean moving halfway across the country though I was wondering if anyone around here had had any experience with the course.

Thanks for taking the time to reply guys

I am also a forensic analyst, with experience covering both le and corporate worlds.

You have some interesting opinions to ponder on. My view is that as you have seen there are very few entry level opportunities out there and having no experience an MSc perhaps wont give you the edge over another candidate (of course if your thesis strikes a chord with a potential employer, that could be a different story) however some hands on IT skills definitely could. Sys admin/networking experience would definitely help out (i say this because there are many more of these jobs that you could potentially get). You are possibly going to be in a situation where you are speculatively looking hoping to catch a company at the right moment, personally id rather do this while i was employed

The demontfort course looks like a good one to me btw (Cranfield now also has a full time option aswell)

My advice is also not based on my opinions of academia and post graduate qualifications, just from someone who completed an msc before moving into the field. Its a horrible situation to be in when you cant get experience because you need experience.

The course at DMU is now curated by two professors who used to design and teach the Forensic Foundation course at Cranfield, which for many years has been highly regarded in the UK. Assuming that they have input into the course materials at DMU, you will at the very least be taught a solid foundation in Digital Forensics - although it will be interesting to see what they offer at MSc level.. ?