Notifications
Clear all

4 TB SSD 'shrinks' over time?

wotsits
(@wotsits)
Active Member

I recently bought a new 4 TB external hard drive. I'm planning to use it to store and convert vast amounts of media, hence the large size. It's one of those WD Passport SSD that's very popular and I'm sure most people are familiar with.

I had some salesman chatter with the people at the place I bought it and was asking about the 3 year warranty that comes with it. They explained to me that as you use it over time the maximum capacity of the drive will get smaller and this is not covered in the warranty.

I'm well aware of the concept of wear leveling on SSDs as I'm sure most people are. But my understanding of it was that you would need to overwrite all the sectors of the drive on the order of tens of thousands of times at a minimum before you in effect wear it out.

This concept of 'drive shrinkage' is a new one to me. Can anyone give me an idea of how much, if any, I should realistically expect after how much usage?

For example, if I'm using this drive to store CCTV footage on a rolling 30 day cycle and every 30 days generates 4 TB of footage at which time the old footage is overwritten with the new and so on.

After how many months would I expect to see the drive shrink and by how much would it shrink?

Quote
Topic starter Posted : 01/10/2016 6:24 am
MDCR
 MDCR
(@mdcr)
Active Member

I've used SSDs extensively, from 60GB drives to 500 GB drives, also 2 Revodrives and SSDs in RAID - and none of them has been reduced in size.

The only way i could see them "shrink" is

1. The drive gets filled with user crap (Temp/Documents) and the drive appears to shrink.
2. The drive either gets very old over time/is using poor flash memory and memory space get mapped out quickly as bad.

My advice is that the sales guy should talk to a shrink.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 01/10/2016 12:32 pm
jaclaz
(@jaclaz)
Community Legend

I recently bought a new 4 TB external hard drive. I'm planning to use it to store and convert vast amounts of media, hence the large size. It's one of those WD Passport SSD that's very popular and I'm sure most people are familiar with.

I am not familiar with 4 Tb Western Digital SSD drives, can you post the exact model?
AFAIK they are conventional hard disks, or at the most SSHD (Hybrid Drives).

jaclaz

ReplyQuote
Posted : 01/10/2016 1:28 pm
athulin
(@athulin)
Community Legend

\

For example, if I'm using this drive to store CCTV footage on a rolling 30 day cycle and every 30 days generates 4 TB of footage at which time the old footage is overwritten with the new and so on.

After how many months would I expect to see the drive shrink and by how much would it shrink?

The best answer I know is this

http//techreport.com/review/27909/the-ssd-endurance-experiment-theyre-all-dead

They do document when they start to see reallocation errors (i.e. when bad blocks can't get remapped anymore). See the first diagram.

However, if yours is not one of the SSD drives tested, you may need to repeat the test yourself.

(Added Also see http//ssdendurancetest.com/ for related testing)

ReplyQuote
Posted : 01/10/2016 4:09 pm
wotsits
(@wotsits)
Active Member

This is the one
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Black-Passport-Ultra-Portable-External/dp/B01H4MZE2K/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1475347154&sr=8-3&keywords=wd%2Bpassport&th=1

Is that not an SSD jaclaz?

ReplyQuote
Topic starter Posted : 02/10/2016 12:41 am
mscotgrove
(@mscotgrove)
Senior Member

Salesmen are there to sell, not necessarily to tell the full truth, and nothing but the truth

ReplyQuote
Posted : 02/10/2016 1:39 am
MDCR
 MDCR
(@mdcr)
Active Member

At £165, it's nowhere near the price of an SSD with that capacity, unless you bought it in a dark alley, no questions asked.

Take the price x 10 for a budget one and x 20 for an enterprise drive with higher quality memory.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 02/10/2016 3:13 am
wotsits
(@wotsits)
Active Member

If it's not an SSD then what is it?

And whatever it is, does it change any of the above answers to my original question?

ReplyQuote
Topic starter Posted : 02/10/2016 7:25 am
yunus
(@yunus)
Active Member

I have seen a 64 GB flash drive that was said to be shrinkin as it is used just like you said. The user brought it for data recovery and said it vas very cheap - so very bad electronics. He complained he saw the capacity of the drive shrank little by little until it became like 4 GB flash drive in a 1 year time

I think this might seem like the situation you mentioned. If very bad electronics, anthing can happen.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 02/10/2016 7:17 pm
MDCR
 MDCR
(@mdcr)
Active Member

If it's not an SSD then what is it?

And whatever it is, does it change any of the above answers to my original question?

Look, even if it was an SSD, the results in the test mentioned above is clear

Most of those drives are 240-250 GB, and showed "Clear evidence of flash wear appeared after 200TB of writes" according to the article. At that point you have a factor of 1000 which matches what i have heard of 1000 writecycles on the flashmemory.

Simple math The drive was going to be use up one writecycle every 30 days (4 TB of 4 TB), that would make it last 1000 months = 83 years (probably with the cheaper drive) under very optimistic conditions. Even if it would last "only" 8.3 years, it would still be a good deal.

Samsung (the lowest scoring in the test) themselves boasts 2000000 hours MTBF, that's 228 years (which is probably not correct but..) Assuming you'd get the Enterprise version of their 4TB drive(SM863), the drive can last a really long time.

http//www.samsung.com/us/system/consumer/product/mz/7l/m3/mz7lm3t8e/SSD-PM863SM863BRO-JAN16TFinal1-13-16.pdf

The article featured an extreme overwrite test that was designed to wear the drive out. Still, i'd replace the drive (regardless of being SSD or not) after 5-6 years to make sure i didn't run into any problems. Maby even use RAID too to make sure i can hotswap if uptime was a priority.

And oh yes, i wouldnt connect an SSD over USB3.0, that's just a waste of money. Use SATA3 to get the performance you're paying for - or buy a mechanical drive.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 02/10/2016 9:34 pm
jaclaz
(@jaclaz)
Community Legend

This is the one
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Black-Passport-Ultra-Portable-External/dp/B01H4MZE2K/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1475347154&sr=8-3&keywords=wd%2Bpassport&th=1

Is that not an SSD jaclaz?

Surely NOT.

It is a conventional hard disk, the thing of note is that (probably) it has four platters, each 1 Tb, and (maybe) uses SMR see
http//www.anandtech.com/show/10456/western-digital-expands-capacities-of-my-passport-drives-using-4-tb-25-hdd

Nothing more distant from SSD which - as MDCR stated - would cost 10x, example
https://www.amazon.com/Samsung-850-EVO-2-5-Inch-MZ-75E4T0B/dp/B01G844OOO

Anyway, SSD's do not "shrink over time", they have overprovisioning, again example paper
http//www.samsung.com/semiconductor/minisite/ssd/downloads/document/Samsung_SSD_845DC_04_Over-provisioning.pdf
i.e. from day one you have less available space than the total.

IF a user sets overprovisioning to 0 more than shrinking over time he/she will experience filesystem corruption (and later will be forced to "shrinking").

There is seemingly some (minimal) overprovisioning that is not "declared", however
http//www.seagate.com/it/it/tech-insights/ssd-over-provisioning-benefits-master-ti/

jaclaz

ReplyQuote
Posted : 02/10/2016 9:58 pm
passcodeunlock
(@passcodeunlock)
Senior Member

This is the item posted

WD 4TB Black My Passport Ultra Portable External Hard Drive - USB 3.0 - WDBBKD0040BBK-EESN

It clearly written that it is a Hard Drive.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 02/10/2016 10:04 pm
JaredDM
(@jareddm)
Active Member

This is the one
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Black-Passport-Ultra-Portable-External/dp/B01H4MZE2K/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1475347154&sr=8-3&keywords=wd%2Bpassport&th=1

Is that not an SSD jaclaz?

Surely NOT.

It is a conventional hard disk, the thing of note is that (probably) it has four platters, each 1 Tb, and (maybe) uses SMR see
http//www.anandtech.com/show/10456/western-digital-expands-capacities-of-my-passport-drives-using-4-tb-25-hdd

Nothing more distant from SSD which - as MDCR stated - would cost 10x, example
https://www.amazon.com/Samsung-850-EVO-2-5-Inch-MZ-75E4T0B/dp/B01G844OOO

Anyway, SSD's do not "shrink over time", they have overprovisioning, again example paper
http//www.samsung.com/semiconductor/minisite/ssd/downloads/document/Samsung_SSD_845DC_04_Over-provisioning.pdf
i.e. from day one you have less available space than the total.

IF a user sets overprovisioning to 0 more than shrinking over time he/she will experience filesystem corruption (and later will be forced to "shrinking").

There is seemingly some (minimal) overprovisioning that is not "declared", however
http//www.seagate.com/it/it/tech-insights/ssd-over-provisioning-benefits-master-ti/

jaclaz

Just to clarify a few things here. Yes, it is a HDD. No, it does not use SMR that's mostly just found in archive drives and a few newer 8TB models. Yes, this model does have at least 4 platters. Depending on the specific internal drive you get it may even have 5 platters.

As to most modern SSDs, they do technically shrink over time but they generally now have built-in overprovisioning which often isn't even user configurable. In most situations, you'll start having S.M.A.R.T. errors long before starting to have any significant shrinkage anyway. It's far more likely that the SSD will just implode and completely stop responding from one reboot to the next. That's usually how they tend to fail in reality.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 11/10/2016 2:13 am
Passmark
(@passmark)
Active Member

if I'm using this drive to store CCTV footage

As mentioned above. The drive is not a SSD & it won't shrink.

BUT, if you are using this drive for CCTV then there are specific drives optimised for this.

Try Googling,
Western Digital Purple
and
Seagate Surveillance

ReplyQuote
Posted : 11/10/2016 8:31 am
tdaniels
(@tdaniels)
New Member

Wotsit, I would have loved it if you were right and it was an SSD, I'd have bought a bunch myself! But I bet if you cracked it open, you would find a standard 2.5" laptop HDD in there.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 19/10/2016 5:51 pm
Share:
Share to...