CD-R Manufacturer Code

Hmm.
I cannot see how it could be faked. (by an "end user" I mean).

AFAIK the ATIP/ADIP is "stamped" while manufacturing the actual media, I guess that a factory can produce CD's or DVD's with faked (in the sense of pointing to another manufacturer name/brand - there used to be Chinese/Hong Kong made "fake" CD's) ATIP, but how would that affect forensic work?

See here for some reference
http//www.forensicfocus.com/index.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=2961

Check this also
http//www.ip.philips.com/download_attachment/4288/4288.pdf

I assume (maybe wrongly) that the OSJ
http//annex.jsap.or.jp/OSJ/index-e.html
is not something "compulsory".

jaclaz

jaclaz

I need some information about

* the OSJ Code Meaning and standards .
* "Sure/Certain" CD Disk Identification Methods.

For deep questions on CD and DVD formats, I've found the user forum at www.cdfreaks.com to be an invaluable resource. I would not be surprised if your questions are answered there somewhere already. The most likely subforum is the one on 'Optical Storage Technical Discussions', I suspect.

4) Or absolutely accurate , unassailable? ( a sort of DNA test that gives the total certainty )

With total certainty~maybe more to show beyond reasonable doubt. As noted on DVD Identifier website the program offers a "reliable method of accurately identifying a disc's real manufacturer". I suppose the consideration here is that if the program provides a reliable method of identifying the disc's true manufacturer, then this is a forensically 'sound' or 'accepted' method.
Reference http//dvd.identifier.cdfreaks.com/

5) Is there any up to date information about [Subject 2-33] ( from http//www.cdrfaq.org/ )

Do you mean up to date 'Manufacturer' information?
According to DVD Identifier, the latest Manufacturer Database has been updated from 12-OCT-08 with 872 entries.

5) Is there any up to date information about [Subject 2-33] ( from http//www.cdrfaq.org/ )

Do you mean up to date 'Manufacturer' information?
According to DVD Identifier, the latest Manufacturer Database has been updated from 12-OCT-08 with 872 entries.

About 5) I'd like to know if there is up to date information about the situations described

"Subject [2-33] Who *really* made this CD-R blank? (2000/09/03)"( from http//www.cdrfaq.org/ )

Many of the "big name" media manufacturers don't actually make their own media. Instead, they buy from other manufacturers and stamp their logo on the discs. Generally speaking, this isn't a bad thing, because the discs were certified good enough that the Big Brand was willing to put the company name behind the product.

If you have a picky recorder or player, though, it helps to be able to try several different pieces of media. If you buy several different brands, and they're all coming from the same manufacturer, chances are they'll all behave the same way, and your time and money will be wasted.

So… how do you tell who really made a piece of media? The short answer is you don't.

It's tempting to believe that CD-R media identifier applications (e.g. section (6-2-9)) will give you the answer you need. Unfortunately, the data you get is unreliable at best. Charles Palmer, from cd-recordable.com, had this to say about the manufacturer identification

"Two components that many users of these programs always take as gospel are Media Manufacturer and Dye Data. These two readings are next to worthless.
The reason for this is that many CD-R manufacturers (like CD- Recordable.com) purchase their stampers (the nickel die that all CD-R substrates are molded from) from 3rd party sources. These 3rd party sources (either other disc manufacturers, or mastering houses) encode the data that these 'Identification' programs read, at the time that the original glass master is encoded. The 'Manufacturer' information that is encoded is usually the name of the company that made the master. Since stampers made from that master will be sold to disc manufacturers the world over, all of discs that those manufacturers produce from those stampers will contain the same 'Manufacturer' information. Information which is obviously quite erroneous and irrelevant. Very seldom will the 'manufacturer' information encoded on a CD-R actually tell you anything other than who made the original master. […]

The second piece of data (the dye type) is also dubious. Because most master/stamper configurations are designed to be matched to specific dye types (Phthalocyanine, Cyanine, Azo, Etc), the 'Dye' information that is encoded when the master is produced indicates the type of dye that the master was designed for. This of course, does not assure that the manufacturer that buys and uses this stamper will be using it with the dye that it has been designed for. It is quite possible that a stamper/dye combination is used by a CD-R manufacturer that contradicts the 'dye' information encoded on the master. Therefore that information becomes as potentially misleading as the 'Manufacturer' data discussed earlier."

The only reliable piece of information in the "ATIP" region is the disc length. See section (2-38) for further remarks.

I assume (maybe wrongly) that the OSJ
http//annex.jsap.or.jp/OSJ/index-e.html
is not something "compulsory".

jaclaz

jaclaz

With OSJ i mean the "Orange Book Study Group of Japan" (Now CDs321 Solutions)

http//www.orangeforum.or.jp/

With OSJ i mean the "Orange Book Study Group of Japan" (Now CDs321 Solutions)

http//www.orangeforum.or.jp/

I stand corrected about the link, thanks. )

Still it seems to me that it something like a club

The CDs21 Solutions made a start in April, 2001. It is a voluntary association organized to promote CDs (compact discs) which have developed into diversified types.

not "compulsory" and a pretty "closed" one.

I mean, ok for the apps that list these OSJ codes, but where is an "official" doc about the list of numbers and corresponding manufacturer? 😯

The "Technical Info"
http//www.cds21solutions.org/en/techinfo/disc01.html
are for members only. (

Where does the 872 manufacturer list in dvd-identifier come from?

It seems to me like this CD guys are if possible even worse than the USB guys, in terms of publishing informations and possibly updated and correct ones. evil

jaclaz