I haven't seen the order myself as I have been to the office once since then. The date of my KFF thread was like two weeks ago. I made that thread maybe a few days after I was there.
As I explined to armresl I may have explined it incorrectly. He for some reason is persistent on throwing me under the bus and I gave him the info to clear this up and I gave him my number to call but he wants to air this out in the open and has already got a warning from it so he is just upset and wants to get back at me.
So no biggie. it's as simple as a phone call. Maybe a Jamie would like to call and put this to rest or another mod.
The guy doesn't respect me enough to give me his first name since he is addressing me by my first I would like to show the same respect back to him. but he won't.
You are spot on Patrick
We know he hasn't see the order because he mentioned it would be the first order he's ever seen and he would post the language
Oh and let's be clear I don't possess anything like you say. Never have. It's my boss that has it.
(Emphasis and proofreading mine)
To quote the Princess Bride I do not think that word means what you think it means.
I think that this started as concern for Josh's well-being because a conviction for possession of CEM is going to ruin your life, and "my boss said" isn't what those of us with a lot of experience would accept as a justification. To put this into context for you, one state's police forensic team in Australia stopped doing all CEM exams for a while back around '03 because under the law at the time, their authority was insufficient. Let me repeat that, the COPS didn't do child abuse exams because they didn't have legal cover.
Now it may be that you have full cover. I just hope that you have seen the order yourself.
To all the really raw newbies (interns, students and such)…
It is basic LE procedure to READ the warrant or order so that if and when you have to justify your actions (I have had to do this more times than I care to remember on the stand during defense cross) you can say you read the appropriate document and you were acting pursuant to it's terms. If you are not LE you are well advised to make this a part of your SOP. No legitimate lawyer or practitioner will refuse this and if they do and you don't inspect the document you could be in for a world of hurt.
Maybe I missed this point somewhere along the line, and if I did, I apologize.
First, what kind of intern is our OP.? Is he or she an intern with a law enforcement agency or an intern with a contract examiner working for either LE or for an attorney? I personally think this is relevant.
CAVEAT I have the perspective of a retired LE in So. Cal. My opinion on the topic is colored by my knowledge of CA case law and my experience.
I know that in California, attorneys for a criminal defendant in a CP case may possess the contraband images under very limited conditions. In the last case in which I was involved (four months ago), the Dep. District Attorney (DDA) asked me to burn four of the contraband images to a CD. The CD was provided to the defendant's attorney by the DDA pursuant to a court order for her to do so. The court order also specified that the defense attorney had to maintain possession of the CD, could not copy the CD, and had to return it to the court for destruction at the conclusion of proceedings.
The reason for my question about the OP's employer In CA, LE agencies have different levels of background investigations that are needed for employees, including interns. Typically, this level of background investigation includes a criminal history check through state and local databases. If the intern is vetted, so to speak, by the LE agency he works for, then I would not have a large concern about his or her viewing CP in connection with his or her duties.
I would have a minor concern if the intern worked for a contract examiner working for an attorney. Under those circumstances, he or she probably had not been subjected to some sort of non-intrusive background investigation, and I don't think that a court would knowingly permit an intern to handle contraband (CP or otherwise) under those circumstances.
I say that I have a minor concern only because I think that whatever repercussions might occur as a result are squarely on the intern's shoulders or the shoulders of his employer. I think that the explanation that "my boss said it was OK" is sort of cavalier and won't be of much protection against the threat of multiple years in state prison and a life time of reporting as a registered sex offender.
Congrats on your retirement mwp2008.
Well put.
On top of the SO list, do not forget learning a new trade, possibly that has nothing to do with computers…
Congrats on your retirement mwp2008.
Well put.
On top of the SO list, do not forget learning a new trade, possibly that has nothing to do with computers…
I will give a little background in myself. Not that it will help anything but I am an open and honest person.
I served 5 yrs in the military and left in 2006 with an honorable discharge. I passed the background test for not only a secret clearance but I also passed the background test for the CCE exam.
My older sister is married to an investigator for DA's office out here and he was the one that got me the job. My little sister is married to a sheriff that has me inline to work at the local jail.
What this does isn't much but I these people wouldn't have vouched for me if I was some shady person.
AM I perfect, no. I got an underage drinking ticket years ago I've gotten plenty of speeding tickets but that's all. The only thing would hurt me is that my wife is not from this country and does not have her citizenship yet as its too much. So getting a clearance again may not happen because if this.
So it doesn't help my case much but least I am an honest person that made a post that this guy took offense and is trying to railroad me. No worries though. He can call me tomorrow at 630 pm my time and I will be at my intern and he can get his answer from me.
Joshsevo, I think the problem you have experienced here is directly related to the way in which you replied to Kovar's questioning of how wise it is for an intern to work CP. As posted earlier, I think his intent was to warn you of the "perilous" slope that you may currently be on. Not to attack you personally.
To his warning, you began your reply with, "I will try and show some restraint…" and went on the defensive. That in itself was disrespectful to Kovar and all who value his opinions.
I have not questioned your integrity or background, only your approach to dealing with a group of people from which you sought help.
Maybe you should re-read the beginning of this entire debacle and see if there is any truth in what I have said.
Josh,
Cheers and good luck with the job. As for the clearance, my wife not a citizen, my 3 year old is dual until he is 18 and I hold 2 clearances, TS and TS/SCI. My TS just renewed 2 months ago. So just having a noncitizen spouse is not directly disqualifying. Lots of things depend - such as what country she is from, does she have Green card etc etc. Mine does.
Cheers
Mark,
What's up buddy.
She is from Poland, yes she has a permanent green car for a long time as we have been married like 5 yrs. Our son was born here and our new child is due in Oct.
Actually something funny is that CP case that I made the other thread about when I got home the wife gave me a back rub and then said "oh I have something to show you" and she whipped out the Pregnancy test and showed me the two lines on it. Then the she started crying.
The reason why I thought I may not get a clearance again is ya know Poland was a former communist country and when I got my clearance from the Navy they told the guy in front of me getting his interview that since his dad was from the Caribbean islands he can't be a crypto.
That's cool that I may still get it. Although this thread and the other one have opened my eyes a bit more I had no intentions of doing this stuff for the long haul. I want to work for the Govt and if I can go back to Iraq or Afgan I would jump on it. Heck I would leave school for it right now and do CF or Network Security over there.
Wanted to follow up one last time to see if you got the language for that order. You mentioned that you would be back around your office and in PM's that you would get it.
Please no arguments like the PM's you sent where you say " I told you to call me or my boss wants to talk." I am just asking if you got the language to the order.
If you have the language and will post it per you saying that you could, great, if not then I will not post to the thread asking for it again.
Congrats on your retirement mwp2008.
Well put.
On top of the SO list, do not forget learning a new trade, possibly that has nothing to do with computers…
I will give a little background in myself. Not that it will help anything but I am an open and honest person.
I served 5 yrs in the military and left in 2006 with an honorable discharge. I passed the background test for not only a secret clearance but I also passed the background test for the CCE exam.
My older sister is married to an investigator for DA's office out here and he was the one that got me the job. My little sister is married to a sheriff that has me inline to work at the local jail.
What this does isn't much but I these people wouldn't have vouched for me if I was some shady person.
AM I perfect, no. I got an underage drinking ticket years ago I've gotten plenty of speeding tickets but that's all. The only thing would hurt me is that my wife is not from this country and does not have her citizenship yet as its too much. So getting a clearance again may not happen because if this.
So it doesn't help my case much but least I am an honest person that made a post that this guy took offense and is trying to railroad me. No worries though. He can call me tomorrow at 630 pm my time and I will be at my intern and he can get his answer from me.