Greetings,
I do not ever charge for machine time. I figure the cost of the hardware, licenses, training, insurance, billing, etc is built into my fees.
If I were to charge for machine time, I could easily see some customer saying "Hey, if you had better machines, this would cost less." Or they'd just go to some competitor who doesn't charge for machine time.
-David
There are certain routine tasks that can be built into the fee projections - image, verification, EnCase operations with new case/media, etc. - that are machine time but I can be doing other billable case work to offset the wait. Example is going though RegRipper, NetAnalysis and MFT dumps while the EnCase crap is getting started.
But think about it if you are tying up the office with one process on a machine with $10-15k of hardware and software - it is a totally acceptable business practice to cover the time and material costs. Even on overnight runs you are taxing the computer and burning electrons. Doing enough of these you will get a feel for when and when not to charge for machine time. I don't think it is an absolute and as you do enough cases you know when it is justified.
The cost per unit time for use of the hardware and software (spread over its usable lifetime) will generally be insignificant compared to the cost per unit time for the wetware )
I'd suggest ensuring that your hourly rate factors in the costs of the equipment which enables you to do your job.
I know some people charge for processing time, but I find it difficult to justify.
Agreed.
I also agree. I think the one exception I've seen was charging for machine or processing time is during a "cracking" engagement which would be 100% machine time.
You aren't to the point of pulling off things for NA or RR yet, you're stuck at the point of the machine just being in use.
Paragraph 2 is a good one.
There are certain routine tasks that can be built into the fee projections - image, verification, EnCase operations with new case/media, etc. - that are machine time but I can be doing other billable case work to offset the wait. Example is going though RegRipper, NetAnalysis and MFT dumps while the EnCase crap is getting started.
But think about it if you are tying up the office with one process on a machine with $10-15k of hardware and software - it is a totally acceptable business practice to cover the time and material costs. Even on overnight runs you are taxing the computer and burning electrons. Doing enough of these you will get a feel for when and when not to charge for machine time. I don't think it is an absolute and as you do enough cases you know when it is justified.
Thank you for all the replies.
It seems that most people are of the same school.
One thing which I think is overlooked here is that lets assume that the office this takes place in is top notch (I mean CF people are geeks right, and try to have the better items for exams)
Computers can only index/work at a certain top speed, there reaches a point where the 20GB of Ram you have or the quad core extreme processor is the best you can get so the argument of get better equipment is a difficult one. Plus if you happen to go out and get more equipment that's just another machine you will replace and more licenses to replace. Also, you don't want to go out and buy more machines when it's over the normal daily amount of machines you will use. If you normally get cases of 1-3 hard drives and get a case with 20 hard drives, will you get those 20 drive cases every day? Will you use the new equipment you just bought for that case every day?
Most shops I've dealt with don't have 10 work stations with 10 licenses.
Which is why my (fledgling) solution is the best. mrgreen
Attorneys understand the size-time relationship. The more data and/or less processing power the longer the process. On the other hand, less data and/or more processing power the shorter the process.
If the attorney sees that the cost benefit justifies more processing power, I can get enormous amount of machine resources allocated in minutes, but it will cost. If time is not an issue, then there can be great savings by reducing the processing resources. Much of the work we have to do is a lot of pre-processing. That pre-processing is "commoditized" in my implementation.
I cannot fathom how someone cannot charge for machine/software time. Indeed it must be reasonable, but here are my questions, and issues
How can you charge for a 5 year old computer? It is off your books, so the value is zero, yet you continue to have it built into your hourly rate.
What if one year you work 365 days, next year you only work 182 days. In year two, the machine/software portion doubles in your hourly rate?
If your client wants 300 CPUs cranking away at their data, totally crippling your business for everything else, you still charge them $0?
Hypothetical (but I have had almost identical) cases -
Case 1. Image 200 laptops - dd, each 320GB, encrypted with BitLocker.
Deliver the images to customer.
You charge?
Case 2. Analyze 320GB Laptop.
Analyze for malware, competitive intelligence, IP theft, and HR violations listed in their employee manual.
You charge?
. . .
Exactly. Your fee for Case 2, if you charge no machine/software may end up higher despite finishing it in a week.
In case 1, the customer sucked the life out of your equipment for potentially weeks, but you who do not charge for machine/software time, only can charge for the setup, and maybe the HDDs you deliver the data on…
😯
[corrected case reference]
Save something for the podcast Jhup
Save something for the podcast Jhup
LOL!! I'd like to hear this podcast as it seems that Jhup has a lot (of good) to say.
Computers can only index/work at a certain top speed, there reaches a point where the 20GB of Ram you have or the quad core extreme processor is the best you can get so the argument of get better equipment is a difficult one. Plus if you happen to go out and get more equipment that's just another machine you will replace and more licenses to replace. Also, you don't want to go out and buy more machines when it's over the normal daily amount of machines you will use. If you normally get cases of 1-3 hard drives and get a case with 20 hard drives, will you get those 20 drive cases every day? Will you use the new equipment you just bought for that case every day?
Looked at from the client's viewpoint, they will say that's your problem not theirs. If I take my car in to be serviced I don't care how much the garage's tools cost to buy or that they can't use them to look at another car while they look at mine. How do they benefit me from them complicating my bill with 'equipment usage' charges?
Does my equipment/licenses/training affect my bottom line? Yes. Do I take account of it in my hourly/daily fee. Yep. Is the client interested in this? Unlikely.