Through courtesy, I decided not to thread-jack the latest in a long line of inappropriate student posts and start a new thread.
Notwithstanding the fact that I have no statistics to back up this comment, it does seem to me that an overwhelming proportion of these 'do my assignment as I can't be bothered to research it myself'-type first-time posts come from UK-based students.
First and foremost, as a Brit, I find this acutely embarassing but it has got me wondering what is it about the current generation of UK students that differentiates them from non-UK students in this regard? Is it a cultural issue with the 'yoof' of today (a pun likely only to be understood by UK-based members)? Is it that UK Universities are prompting their perceived unaccountable attitudes? Is it that the UK has so diluted the previous system that only high-achievers could expect to go to University and get a positive result? Or is it something else or a mix of issues? In any event, the potential implications for the industry are clear.
My own opinions are likely given away by the questions that I ask above! It must be stated that, in my time as a guest lecturer in the UK, I have taught some very talented, motivated and responsible students but they are in the minority.
Hear, hear!
I've noticed a ton of this myself, to get to the 'interesting' posts on here, i'm finding more and more time being spent wading through the sort of things you describe.
However i can't see an easy way round it, bar the old restricted areas to people working in the field, verified by a moderator. (which without digging up that debate has both benefits and downsides, and also would place a much larger burden on Jamie)
Rich
It might be indicative of the long term effects of an education system that focuses on the passing of exams, rather than acutal learning ? I have to agree that it seems to be oddly prevalent in the UK students, statistically I suppose you'd expect to see more US students (from the fact that it is a bigger country with a larger number of academic courses available) - but I guess that it is no great suprise that the majority are from countries where English is the primary language - if this were forensicfocus.nl, then I suppose the bias would lean toward Dutch students.
We do have to remember though that, in the UK, the number of university students as a whole has risen by over 100,000, which was an increase of over 25%, in the last 6 years alone. Given the current state of UK television, and what passes for popular viewing, it is a difficult argument to make that the general population's level of inteligence and capability is greater now than it was six years ago or indeed that education is improving ( GCSE and A-level results are higher than ever ). This only leaves the realistic answer that University entry standards are lower.
Perhaps we are merely painfully recognising the lower 5% and the other 20% of new students are answering their questions through dillegence and study, and when they do have a problem it is clearly and concisely articulated ?
I too have spent time as an associate lecturer, and have encountered both ends of the spectrum - those who already know all the answers, and are just sitting the qualification for the paper, and those who would really have been better as tree surgeons. As a paid lecturer though, there is some duty of care to try and eke out the best IT from all students regardless of their arborial aptness. Here, on the forum, that duty of care is less clear cut.
As to a solution, well, we always have the verbal "slaps on the wrists" that we dish out occasionally - "have you tried google ?", "think about it yourself before asking here" etc. I agree that Jamie's time is best not taken up with moderating these kinds of verbal argument, so perhaps we should self moderate with more consistency ? Perhaps a gentle nudge towards the generally accepted bookshelf of useful books or online resources ( Google ! ).
I don't think that, despite the requests, I've ever actually seen an obviously course based question answered here, so perhaps we are already achieving the best we can.
( P.S. I have a piece of coursework due myself next weekend, so I have a lot of sympathy for those who wish that someone else would do it for them ! )
Do we need a students question forum.
Some of the questions are worth working with, while others do not show much knowledge.
Any posting should require the question 'Have you looked on Google yet' to be answered.
Through courtesy, I decided not to thread-jack the latest in a long line of inappropriate student posts and start a new thread.
First and foremost, as a Brit, I find this acutely embarassing but it has got me wondering what is it about the current generation of UK students that differentiates them from non-UK students in this regard?
It's not UK only, and worse than that
Why do I have this deja-vu feeling? roll wink
http//www.forensicfocus.com/index.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=6560
http//www.forensicfocus.com/index.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=6116
problem is not "limited" to students.
jaclaz
Do we need a students question forum.
I like that idea.
It is a sorry state of affairs actually. Probably the overriding skill that you can develop as a student is the ability to research. Whilst you may finish and the curriculum you studied bears no resemblance to industry, is no longer relevant, was to broad etc. at least you (may) have developed the skills to go out and learn and find something out for yourself. There's not much to be gained from people on the forum telling you the answers.
I don't know what current students have to complain about - I vividly recall the days before all information was on the internet (late 80's) and research was done at the Library and by combing through books.
If today's "students" haven't got the basic ability to conduct research with the entire globe literally at their fingertips, perhaps a change in vocation would be more suitable as researching and searching are, after all, intrinsically important parts of forensics (and academia).
I don't know what current students have to complain about - I vividly recall the days before all information was on the internet (late 80's) and research was done at the Library and by combing through books.
Oh the Dark Ages when I was in high school during the early 1980s and we had to use this mysterious resource called the library. Do students today even understand the Dewey Decimal System?
If today's "students" haven't got the basic ability to conduct research with the entire globe literally at their fingertips, perhaps a change in vocation would be more suitable as researching and searching are, after all, intrinsically important parts of forensics (and academia).
Agreed. The transition from people willing to conduct their own research into a problem or issue to the instant gratification seeking people became evident when the quality of USENET postings declined seemingly in correlation with the influx of the masses to this new fangled thing known as the World Wide Web. Reading, researching and analyzing are essential skills both for successful students and for anyone hoping to work in an analytical field such as forensics.
Reading, researching and analyzing are essential skills both for successful students and for anyone hoping to work in an analytical field such as forensics.
That about sums it up. But maybe we might want to also ask
a) What is the level of 'teaching' the students actually receive?
b) Why is the suggestion being made that some (not all students) do not understand the path to researching?
c) Isn't there another aspect as well to consider and that is what is the level of reading materials actually available from the University?