Do several full formats erase all data?

But those two png's come from the page
http//nvsl.ucsd.edu/index.php?path=projects/sanitize
that still refers to the already cited and talked about articles
http//cseweb.ucsd.edu/users/swanson/papers/Fast2011SecErase.pdf
http//cseweb.ucsd.edu/users/swanson/papers/TR-cs2011-0963-Safe.pdf
http//cseweb.ucsd.edu/users/swanson/papers/TR-cs2011-0968-Grind.pdf

I have the impression we are running in circles….

In extreme synthesis the papers verified that IF the SSD supports the ATA Safe Erase Command (which is part of the specifications since many years) AND IF it supports/implements it correctly, the data is safely erased.

In a set of statements

• a SSD drive that is fully conforming to current standards can be erased through the ATA Safe Erase Command
• a SSD drive that does not fully conform to the standards may or may not be erased the same way
• SSD drives exist that do not conform to standard (in the sense that they do not provide the Safe Erase command)
• SSD drives exist that do not conform to standard (in the sense that do provide the Safe Erase command but it's implementation is buggy/icomplete/wrong)
• the effects of running a SSD on a TRIM enabled OS may or may not erase "unindexed" data in such a way that is irrecoverable
• some SSD devices implement an automatic Trim/garbage collection routine which is "internal" and independednt from the OS running/accessing the device

And we are back to
http//www.forensicfocus.com/Forums/viewtopic/p=6563138/#6563138

jaclaz

Yes I already know those documents.

Those documents you refer to were produced for 2010 looking historically at what has taken place with one draft (v0.9) identifying a project roadmap for later years.

Apart from Belkasoft links do you have a document for 2012 that definitively identifies nothing has progressed sinced 2010. If not, how can you be sure we are all going around in circles merely based upon your cited links to reports?

Yes I already know those documents.

Those documents you refer to were produced for 2010 looking historically at what has taken place with one draft (v0.9) identifying a project roadmap for later years.

Apart from Belkasoft links do you have a document for 2012 that definitively identifies nothing has progressed sinced 2010. If not, how can you be sure we are all going around in circles merely based upon your cited links to reports?

I guess there is a misunderstanding.

I was saying that the (found) and cited research papers/sources are still the same ones, thus we are running in circles until we find new sources/papers/research with updated results.

We are saying the same thing, we need more, different, new, updated, research reports, but the point that I was trying to make on the other thread is that such additional research may provide a number of new, different behaviours from other devices, which will only add other possibilities in "everything and the contrary of everything is possible".

Since we have no way to know for sure if "exhibit A" that you get in your lab belongs to WHICH of the various "types" or "models" and corresponding behaviour, be this behaviour one among the already tested and verified ones or an entirely new (or even yet to be discovered) one, thus the issue is WHICH approach is to be taken? (Now, with the data we do have available, the only one seems like being a direct chip reading.)

jaclaz

OK jaclaz, I agree it is a misunderstanding.

Whilst talking about old material did you see the YouTube video of Michael Wei presenting at the conference 2011? http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNlobn2CinQ

I have collected 368 documents and reports on this matter so far and there is later material. I am starting to sift through and read. In fact there is one I am just reading right now as I making this post

IEEE International Solid-State Circuits Conference (ISSCC) - Trend tracking for ISSCC 2012
WINTER 2012 IEEE SOLID-STATE CIRCUITS MAGAZINE

NAND Flash Logic
Over the past few years, significant developments in NAND flash memory have resulted in high-density, low-power, and low-cost storage solutions that are enabling the replacement of traditional hard disk drives by solid-state disks (SSDs). With physical scaling, accompanied by advancing multilevel storage cell concepts, a 128-Gb/die capacity is being demonstrated at ISSCC 2012, using 19-nm technology with 3-b/ cell operation. Figure 16 shows the observed trend in NAND flash capacities presented at ISSCC over the past 17 years. As process feature size shrinks, error rates rise, requiring system designers to develop more sophisticated controllers to compensate, some of which are utilized outside the NAND silicon, in the system-memory controller.

It doesn't identify manufacturer/s so I am having to go through the 2012 presentations to see if they hold any useful info.

BUT practically this is NOT needed.

Please note how there is not a single report/document/evidence that ANYTHING has been EVER been recovered after a single 00 pass, even on more traditional media, exception made for this reference
http//www.forensicfocus.com/Forums/viewtopic/p=6518726/#6518726

Further there are papers supporting this theory, instead of write-up that just says that no write-up exist to refute
http//link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007%2F978-3-540-89862-7_21
http//computer-forensics.sans.org/blog/2009/01/15/overwriting-hard-drive-data/
http//computer-forensics.sans.org/blog/2009/01/28/spin-stand-microscopy-of-hard-disk-data/

Of course Government Agencies may have the technology ….. 😯
So it's safer anyway to break the disk and send pieces to China
http//www.forensicfocus.com/Forums/viewtopic/t=9682

This links appears not to work.

So on the subject the OP asked, for now we will just exclude SSD until we have some concrete answers, single pass zero wiping, even if by a formatting command will wipe the data. Is this the general consensus?

This links appears not to work.

Glitch in the matrix 😯 , try this one
http//www.forensicfocus.com/Forums/viewtopic/t=9682/
(missing slash at the end oops )

Further there are papers supporting this theory, instead of write-up that just says that no write-up exist to refute

I am not sure to get what you mean. ?
The posts by Craig Wright are well known as well as the "full" article

Overwriting Hard Drive Data The Great Wiping Controversy

that you co-authored (presuming you are that Dave Kleiman)

So on the subject the OP asked, for now we will just exclude SSD until we have some concrete answers, single pass zero wiping, even if by a formatting command will wipe the data. Is this the general consensus?

My personal opinion is yes, though being at a much "lower" level of knowledge and particularly picky, I would state that in a more "limited way" as "a single 00 write will make the pre-existing data not recoverable in practice with any known means".

jaclaz