Helix Subscriptions

ctendell, it would seem your previous rant apology wasn't so genuine.

It was entirely genuine, I'm just very passionate about the subject.

I will respectfully bow out of this argument. I am far too busy to warrant spending any more time arguing the same points over and over again, with a SMALL minority who clearly are not listening.

Trust me, It is not a "SMALL minority". And just you saying that, shows the "we don't care about the little guys that made us" attitude.

I have already clearly stated e-fense's motivation is not greed. I made it clear the position taken by e-fense's new management. But you had to try and point the finger at greed again…

I didn't say it was. I merely asked a question.

You are yet another person who wishes to make money. You've said so yourself. Yet, you do not wish to pay for the tools you've used in the past should a price be added. If I wished to continue the argument, I would ask, is it greed which makes you want tools for nothing, so that you can maximise your profits?

First off we all like money, I wont deny that. I did not say I wasn't willing to pay for Helix3. If you read my rant to the end you would have seen my caviot to buying from E-fense. What I don't agree with is not only the fact that they shutout people that contributed time, and in some cases money. But the fact that they are not passing on the money to the people who deserve it.

Centdell, I am sorry to say, it would seem your motivation stems from attempting to springboard your reputation by continually criticising another organisation. A trick often used by weak politicians… I make this observation from the fact you are continually so vocal and continually ranting about e-fense. You've made your point, labouring it isn't doing you any favours.

My reputation? I'm sorry what? Because I'm vocal about something that a "SMALL minority" is outraged about. I'm sorry but you are wrong sir. Throughout history the voice of a "SMALL minority" has gone shut out by companies that would prefer not have their dirty laundry aired. Your managing director her self called me in reference to this very thing.
My bottom line is this, the GPL tools included in Helix3 were not developed, enhanced or otherwise maintained by E-fense. Therefore, I FEEL that the $179 "subscription" to a the project is only valid if the people who contribute(d) to this project are offered some sort of compensation.

How much of the Helix 3 distro is actually written from the ground up and what proportion is further development of existing open source tools ? Can you assure us all that proper consideration has been made of the licensing implications of the other software included ?

According to this list. http//www.forensicswiki.org/wiki/Helix 4 maybe 5 tools.

Where on earth is there free beer ? Or for that matter clean water ?

The Beer portion was a joke. I've had the pleasure of living all over the world. In my experience all of these things are free. Now the processing to refine, and clean out the pollutants we put into these things is not, We are quickly killing this planet. It will be my grandchildren that have to pay for our mistakes in the long run. But that is a totally different topic for a totally different forum.

Ok… One last point. I won't reference most of your reply as the arguments used are incorrect as I have already said.

However, when you use "free" tools and make a nice fat profit, do you offer money to the people who developed those free tools?

If you do, do you make a contribution each time?

Ok… One last point. I won't reference most of your reply as the arguments used are incorrect as I have already said.

I therefore do not know

I urge you to research.
I'm an active member and contributor to all of the projects who's tools I use.

Ok… One last point. I won't reference most of your reply as the arguments used are incorrect as I have already said.

"To the best of your knowledge" I urge you to research.
I'm an active member and contributor to all of the projects who's tools I use.

Again, the question is, do you make financial contributions to the developers of the tools you use, and to be more blunt, each time you use them and make money from their use, do you make a fair contribution based upon how much use you had and the amount of profit made?

I am an active member and contributor, as an answer, skips the question.

No I do not contribute financially EACH time I use the tool. Yes I do contribute financially to projects. Some of them on a quarterly/yearly basis. I also contribute my time and energy to the betterment of the tools I use.

So you attribute time and energy to the betterment of the tools you use, as a commodity. After all, it is part of your contribution to these projects.

I do recall that Drew had clearly stated in the past, the fee's for helix3 are for the time and energy invested by Drew to provide investigators with a purpose built CD for live response. So, the commodity being paid for, is the developers time plus the app's created by e-fense. EDIT… I forgot to include time spent supporting/investigating issues.

Of course, when Helix Pro comes out, this argument is very mute.

I appreciate your honesty and openness with regards to how often you contribute to some projects.

Where on earth is there free beer ? Or for that matter clean water ?

The Beer portion was a joke. I've had the pleasure of living all over the world. In my experience all of these things are free. Now the processing to refine, and clean out the pollutants we put into these things is not, We are quickly killing this planet. It will be my grandchildren that have to pay for our mistakes in the long run. But that is a totally different topic for a totally different forum.

Hmmm … Me too … I've lived in Ghana ( no clean water ), Dubai & Oman ( _no_ water ), the Phillipines ( no clean water ), Sri Lanka ( no clean water ) as well as a few other better developed places where we deal with polution - UK, USA, Hong Kong … I'd be relucant to state that it is a universally accepted basic staple otherwise organisations such as http//www.wateraid.org/ and http//www.oxfam.org/en/search/node/water wouldn't exist.

Hmmm … Me too … I've lived in Ghana ( no clean water ), Dubai & Oman ( _no_ water ), the Phillipines ( no clean water ), Sri Lanka ( no clean water ) as well as a few other better developed places where we deal with polution - UK, USA, Hong Kong … I'd be relucant to state that it is a universally accepted basic staple otherwise organisations such as http//www.wateraid.org/ and http//www.oxfam.org/en/search/node/water wouldn't exist.

Now the processing to refine, and clean out the pollutants WE put into these things is not free.

But again different forum & topic.

Hmmm … Me too … I've lived in Ghana ( no clean water ), Dubai & Oman ( _no_ water ), the Phillipines ( no clean water ), Sri Lanka ( no clean water ) as well as a few other better developed places where we deal with polution - UK, USA, Hong Kong … I'd be relucant to state that it is a universally accepted basic staple otherwise organisations such as http//www.wateraid.org/ and http//www.oxfam.org/en/search/node/water wouldn't exist.

Now the processing to refine, and clean out the pollutants WE put into these things is not free.

But again different forum & topic.

http//www.wateraid.org/international/what_we_do/the_need/disease/default.asp

Please read the link and think before just repeating what you said before. It is unquestionably a different forum and topic, but if you blatantly disregard what others are saying, irregardless of the subject matter, and just repeat yourself, you don't show yourself to be well reasoned or rational.

Thank you for the link, My point on that matter is this, 80 years ago the water was drinkable. Due to our, mankind's, negligence & mistreating of our earth WE have caused the pollution and disease.