Bloody hell, it's kicking off *again* with fd…
Hey Jamie,
Yes, it does appear that way, doesn't it? Bloody hell ditto 😉
Notice I did try to steer Jonathan to ping me direct so as to avoid anyone crying about anything on your forum.
Odd how it is if I were anyone else other than the developer no one would have issue. Funny how that is, eh? Apparently developers cannot have thoughts and opinions, or share them. 😉
But happily it appears only one person has piped up so hopefully nothing else will arise.
Cheers!
farmerdude
Mmmm, I think if I was being honest (which I do occasionally make a stab at) I'd say one or two comments were perhaps just a tad below the belt - ouch 😯
As I understand it, you both have a fighter in the ring here? Perhaps we should do a review of both products and see if either lands a knockout blow?
Of course, if they're completely different beasts there's little value in such a comparison but I know that I for one (and, I presume, Jonathan) would find it useful to learn more about both…
Jamie
Farmerdude
While you can have a bit of an attitude at times, I believe there are many of us here who appreciate your comments (no matter how snarky ;-).
It would be nice for more developers to drop on by and be able to response to issues with their software, but seeing how they are sometimes treated by the members at times, I can understand why they might not want to participate. Its good you have a thick skin and always jump in.
As far as the Helix developments, I have my concerns. As a college professor, I've always appreciated free/low cost tools that I could use in my classes and hand off to my students for their continued use. But I also believe that everyone is entitled to profit from their work - in any way they feel is appropriate.
It will be interesting to see what happens.
bj
It would be nice for more developers to drop on by and be able to response to issues with their software, but seeing how they are sometimes treated by the members at times, I can understand why they might not want to participate. Its good you have a thick skin and always jump in.
Without wishing to go OT here, I must say I haven't noticed this - do developers feel they're harshly treated here? If that is happening, it's certainly something to be addressed.
Jamie
Perhaps we should do a review of both products and see if either lands a knockout blow?
A while back I spoke to farmerdude about this, and in several private emails, he outlined his reasoning to me as to why tends to avoid comparing his products in a public forum he doesn't want it to be too much likes a sales pitch; he doesn't want to make it seem like he is tearing down the other tools/developers; and he doesn't want to give his competition too many ideas and suggestions.
I've seen these sort of things happen, both online and in person. I was at a conference discussing the capabilities pf Helix and other free and open source tools, and the next presenter, from a major commercial forensic software company, then spent a lot of his presentation slamming Helix, pointing out its flaws, and detailing what their tool did better. People tend to be very defensive about the tools they use and/or developed.
So I think that when farmerdude points people to his website, and is willing to engage them in a private conversation, he is being open and honest, and trying to avoid a public flamewar.
But he also has a wicked east-coast acerbic sense of humor that a lot of people don't understand. If any of you ever get the chance, go to one of his presentations, and you will walk away with a different opinion of him - (I'm not saying better - I'm just saying different D)
bj
Hmmm, seems I unintentionally got involved in some handbags.
As suggested I'll contact farmerdude off-list. Wardy, do you think it might be helpful to have a sig with who your empolyers are?
Jonathan,
I have made no secret of the fact I now work for e-fense. I can advertise it on my sig, just never thought it necessary.
Farmerdude, critisism of a product can be constructive and helpful. I didn't make my comments because you are a developer, or have a rival product. It was because as Jamie said, your comments were below the belt. I am sure we can move on from here though? Afterall, keeping our comments professional is surely the only way we can benefit the forensic community with our tools?
bjgleas, I understand your concerns. As someone who once worked for one of the "customers" of these products, I can appreciate it never feels good to be asked to pay for a product which was once free.
Helix has remained free for a very long time. Unless everything else in life were to become free, this simply cannot be sustained. e-fense isn't about trying to make a fortune, however as you can appreciate, the staff involved aren't free and do need to be paid.
As a developer in e-fense, I am more than happy to answer questions raised, providing they are in my "area". This forum is after all, is a resource for helping forensic investigators…
Good points, guys. The boxing analogy was more tongue-in-cheek than a serious suggestion but I'd be very happy to publish a short article (or interview) for each product both here and in an upcoming newsletter so people have a better feel for exactly what each product does.
@Wardy - yes, probably a good idea to have the sig, although you might as well go the whole hog and make it clickable too 😉
Jamie
Done, thank you Jamie 😉