My buddy got a call yesterday from a local “Detective.” The guy says “Hey, can you help me write a search warrant?” Buddy What’s it for? Detective A computer. Buddy Tell me about it. Detective Well I arrested this guy for a bunch of burglaries and he apparently used his computer to map out the locations he hit through MapQuest , Google Earth and several other websites. Buddy And this guy told you all this stuff is on his computer? Detective Well No, I sort of already looked at the computer and someone told me I needed a search warrant. Buddy You’re right, you do need a warrant, but you needed it before you started looking. Detective Why? (Ain’t that just priceless?) Buddy Because you have changed data on the computer especially all the accessed dates related to the evidence you thought you were going to get. You might want to talk to the DA, but I won’t be helping you write the warrant.
I’m sure all of us know of a story like this. Much of this is an ethical problem. It’s easy to see that he wanted to search the computer and if no evidence could be obtained he wouldn’t mention it. Now after finding something he wants to go back and try to repair the damage.
Aside from the ethics issue I still hear stories of officers and detectives that believe you can just go rifling through a computer or cell phone because they are Johnny Law and can do whatever they want to.
I really think all police academy’s in the US should address forensic issues and e-discovery. Additionally I guess something should be added to in-service required training.
I agree. Basic electronic crime scene investigation should be a required block of instruction by POST but I think that often, it's not ignorance, but laziness.
Here you go again with the insults. This time someone is called an idiot. I thought this forum was above all that.
You Joined what a month ago and no one called you any names for the questions you were asking which a lot of people on here already knew.
forensicakb - thanks for your continued concern for these forums, keep it up and I'll have to put you on the payroll wink
Seriously, though, I often can't tell if you're just trying to making the odd snide comment about the way these forums are run or if you're genuinely trying to be helpful but either way if you're concerned by something you see please contact me directly and let me play the role of moderator.
Let's move into 2011 with the above in mind.
Jamie
forensicakb,
Other than my post about the guy with the exploding iPhone I don't really know that I tried to insult anyone? I know I called someone out on their 1st post regarding hiding information, but I believe based upon the way the post was worded my concerns were well founded.
Being new I don't know that it would serve any purpose to insult anyone since most on here have forgotten more than I will ever know. Could anyone really expect to insult someone and then hope to gain knowledge from them? Not really. Thanks to all those that have responded to my questions. D
The guy I was refering to is an idiot. He darn well knows that he can't bust in someones front door, search the house and then ask for a warrant so why does he think a computer would be any different.
Prior to sending the post to the forum I thought for a second "How do I entitle this?" Maybe I chose poorly? If I offended you that was not my intent.
My main point was that POST commissions in all States need to make E-discovery training mandatory for initial and in-service training. Chief's of Police and Sheriff's Associations should really start pushing this type of training.
Cheers!
I agree that all POST boards should require a basic electronic evidence bag n tag class - more importantly a class on what NOT to do. I don't know who is more apt to screw up the evidence - the old (I've been busting criminals since before you were in your diapers, Sonny) timer or the young (I grew up with a PSP and an iphone in my diaper) buck. Regardless, it is something they both need to be taught.
Unfortunately, this is a prevalent issue just about anywhere. It is only when the D is burned by defense counsel or by the judge (or sometimes the PA/DA) that they learn what not to do. With defense counsel's, judges, defense experts, law clerks etc getting more knowledgeable and informed in electronic crime - the Officer is not able to get by with poor procedure like she/he used to.
HCSO - in defense of the D that did this. Maybe it's not his idiocy that caused him to do that, but his lack of knowledge. He knows not to bust into a house without a search warrant because he was taught that. If he was not taught how to handle digital evidence, then he should have not handled it. Your first few days on the road, you probably pulled a few groaners that made your FTO roll his eyes - everyone does - hopefully you learn from your mistakes and luckily they are not costly ones. Cut the guy some slack and see if you can give him some advise on what to do in the future. ) On the other hand, if he knew better… then…. *sigh*
Be safe.
-=Art=-
I prefer to speak to the source to make up my mind before calling someone an idiot (and it would appear that hcso is calling someone an idiot whom he has not spoken with to get his side of the story) - people have a tendency to ad-lib when relating a story.
forensicakb,
The guy I was refering to is an idiot. He darn well knows that he can't bust in someones front door, search the house and then ask for a warrant so why does he think a computer would be any different.
Well, for the same reason you said this…
forensicakb,
I’m sure all of us know of a story like this.
I wouldn't say the guy is a flat out idiot…he's just naive to the facts of computer forensics procedures.
As computers/networks are utilized more and more in crime, and as more cases get thrown out due to procedural technicalities, you can be assured that the training of how to handle digital evidence will be pushed to the forefront. As with most things, it takes time to adapt.
… a local “Detective.” … Detective Well I arrested this guy … Detective Well No, I sort of already looked at the computer and someone told me I needed a search warrant. …
How one becomes a detective, yet not know about fruit of the poisonous tree?
How one becomes a detective, yet not know about fruit of the poisonous tree?
Because plain sight versus digging around in an electronic device that is in plain sight is not something that is taught. Evidence handling in the electronic age is going to have to be addressed sooner rather than later.