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is this absurd or logic way to erase Flash memory?  

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williamsonn
(@williamsonn)
Member

hello

I am thinking about this issue

If any eraser software what makes is to overwrite the drive with random data, and only a pass is needed to delete any previous stored data, then, would also be similarly effective for wiping, erasing a mp3 player using its voice recording option and filling the device with environment blank noise, or music?

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Posted : 09/02/2013 2:17 am
Beetle
(@beetle)
Active Member

hello

I am thinking about this issue

If any eraser software what makes is to overwrite the drive with random data, and only a pass is needed to delete any previous stored data, then, would also be similarly effective for wiping, erasing a mp3 player using its voice recording option and filling the device with environment blank noise, or music?

Why would you think it would be any different? The active data would be gone but the file system would be intact, I think this has been covered in other threads.

We used to just write one big random file over areas of drives we wanted to sanitize.

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Posted : 09/02/2013 4:36 am
ThePM
(@thepm)
Active Member

Depends if your mp3 player is using HDD or Flash memory.

Flash memory is a bit different than HDDs as most Flash devices have more memory than advertised to be able to do wear levelling. This memory is not user accessible and is used solely by the Flash controller for the wear levelling tasks. During wear leveling, data can be copied and moved around everywhere on the Flash chips.

So, if you do a standard wipe that does 1-pass overwrite on a Flash drive, you might write on the user accessible memory, but not on the system reserved memory used for wear leveling, leaving potentially chunks of data that could be retrieved via JTAG or chip-off.

For example, a 120 GB SSD drive might in fact have 160 GB of Flash memory, but only 120 GB that is user accessible. So, if you do a standard wipe, you might end up wiping some 120 GB, potentially leaving 40 GB of chunks of data.

NIST suggests to wipe Flash and SSD drives with the ATA Secure Erase command, which self-erases all Flash chips on the drive, including system reserved ones. Of course, this works if the manufacturer has implemented the Secure Erase command correctly…

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Posted : 09/02/2013 6:53 am
williamsonn
(@williamsonn)
Member

then, is there any easy way(for non experts) to 100% delete an used flash memory before selling it?, if not, the only way would be to destroy the chips, and of course, the pendrive/mp3 player couldn´t be sold.

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Posted : 10/02/2013 12:08 am
williamsonn
(@williamsonn)
Member

then, is there any easy way(for non experts) to 100% delete an used flash memory before selling it?, if not, the only way would be to destroy the chips, and of course, the pendrive/mp3 player couldn´t be sold.

? For example would a full windows format reach all the flash memory levels?

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Posted : 10/02/2013 12:10 am
williamsonn
(@williamsonn)
Member

IS this article correct?

http//www.wipeyourdata.com/secure-data-wiping/how-to-securely-wipe-data-on-usb-thumb-drive/

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Posted : 10/02/2013 12:15 am
jaclaz
(@jaclaz)
Community Legend

? For example would a full windows format reach all the flash memory levels?

No.

jaclaz

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Posted : 10/02/2013 12:15 am
jaclaz
(@jaclaz)
Community Legend

IS this article correct?

http//www.wipeyourdata.com/secure-data-wiping/how-to-securely-wipe-data-on-usb-thumb-drive/

Yes and no.

jaclaz

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Posted : 10/02/2013 12:22 am
williamsonn
(@williamsonn)
Member

Then is there something to do for a common user, if he wants to sell some used mp3, sd cards, or pendrives?

ReplyQuote
Posted : 10/02/2013 12:34 am
jaclaz
(@jaclaz)
Community Legend

Then is there something to do for a common user, if he wants to sell some used mp3, sd cards, or pendrives?

Usually e-bay is a good place to sell them. wink

Now, seriously.
Try asking this other question

IF there is no way to be 100% sure that ALL data has been wiped from a device, what are the chances for anyone not being part of a Government Agency to recover *any* data?

A. 0.00001

And what if they are not digital forensic/recovery experts?
A. 0.0000001

And what are the chances to recover meaningful data?
A. 0.00000001

Read, possibly this time attentively, the thread you were ALREADY pointed to
http//www.forensicfocus.com/Forums/viewtopic/p=6564944/#6564944

jaclaz

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Posted : 10/02/2013 1:44 am
williamsonn
(@williamsonn)
Member

Do you mean that, not even a governtment expert can revover any MEANINGFUL fragment, for example a track of music or a part of it?

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Posted : 10/02/2013 2:53 am
jaclaz
(@jaclaz)
Community Legend

Do you mean that, not even a governtment expert can revover any MEANINGFUL fragment, for example a track of music or a part of it?

Define "part". roll

Please explain how - even if recovering a WHOLE track of music was possible (it is NOT) - would this somehow prevent selling the used item and/or compromise your privacy and/or have any legal consequences to you and/or have any worth of note consequential effect of *any* kind.

jaclaz

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Posted : 10/02/2013 5:08 pm
williamsonn
(@williamsonn)
Member

jaclaz When I said "part" I am referring to, for example, half, of a song of a recording.

Then, I am not speaking of legally compromising anyone. I was asking, first, if a sd card, or an mp3 player, or a pendrive could be totally erased, so anyone could get back anything. From your previous answer, I understood(dont know if correctly), it was near impossible, and ever more impossible to get back any meaningful data.

Thanks.

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Posted : 16/02/2013 11:56 pm
williamsonn
(@williamsonn)
Member

(By the way,about this subject, perhaps anyone could be interested in I tried to recover different times something from an mp3 player or a pendrive using different easy recovering tools like recuva and never got anything.)

ReplyQuote
Posted : 17/02/2013 12:00 am
jaclaz
(@jaclaz)
Community Legend

Again, you initially talked of being unable to recover "any previous stored data" and to "100% delete".

Just like in the "companion thread"
http//www.forensicfocus.com/Forums/viewtopic/t=10233/

the whole point is that there is a difference between 100% and (say wink ) 98.37% which is what you are deleting with CCleaner or similar.

jaclaz

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Posted : 17/02/2013 5:59 pm
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