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LE contracting out

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tebodell
(@tebodell)
Posts: 25
Eminent Member
Topic starter
 

Hey again FF members,

So it's not unheard of for LE to contract out to civilian firms to do the forensic analysis but how common is it? It would seem to me that unless you're in a larger city that departments just wouldn't have these special resources or the manpower to dedicate a few people to doing forensic invesitgations?

My other question is, if a civilian firm has been working with law enforcement is there any possibility that the civilian firm in question would then have access to tools and utilities that are restricted to law enforcement. Odds are in most cases they would not be but I was just wondering if there is a possibility of say a contract that states the firm would only use the LE restricted tools on LE contract cases, etc. If that's not possible then why would LE even think about contracting out to a civilian firm when they know the firm cannot utilize the full extent of it's forensic resources because it can't get access to tools that are limited to LE and gov users.

Just curious I suppose, it would seem that if you're a civilian firm working with law enforcement / local state entities that not having those tools would put you at quite a disadvantage.

Any feedback would be appreciated and thanks a lot.

–Tebodell

 
Posted : 01/04/2005 5:52 am
(@gmarshall139)
Posts: 378
Reputable Member
 

I understand that some departments do contract out examinations. I know of no instances of it in my area, however I and a handful of other L.E. examiners do most of the examinations for surrounding jurisdictions as it is necessary. In most cases the state forensics labs such as the Division of Forensic Science in Virginia offer little if any service in this area to law enforcement agencies. I look for that to change in years to come.

There is not a lot of law enforcement restricted software out there. I don't use any of it. Ilook and Encase's Field Intelligence Model come to mind. When I started doing private sector work I bought the same software I use in L.E. I don't think the private sector is at any disadvantage in the area of software availability.

Where law enforcement, military, and other gov't examiners have an advantage is in training availability. There is quite a lot of training available, much of it free, only to those entities. I'm thinking about the National White Collar Crime Center primarily, although there are some others. I don't think you'll qualify for those by contracting with L.E. agencies.

 
Posted : 01/04/2005 3:25 pm
tebodell
(@tebodell)
Posts: 25
Eminent Member
Topic starter
 

Thanks for the reply,

I guess you're right after a bit more of looking most of the software that seems restricted can be purchased somehow. Is the only difference between the EnCase forensic LE edition and the commercial version the price or is there some different features in the LE version? Whats in FIM that needs to be restricted? Just the capabilities? I guess the software question came to mind when looking at ilook, the new steg hashes (which was recently made clear that you can purchase a license to them), but what about the hardware side of things. I recently read the thread here about the HDs in secure-mode and the vogon password cracking pod, is there any special hardware that would be restricted to those entities?

Again thanks for the feedback, things aren't as gloomy as they seemed 😛

–Tebodell

 
Posted : 01/04/2005 8:32 pm
(@gmarshall139)
Posts: 378
Reputable Member
 

The Encase Field Intelligence Model has the same capabilities as the Enterprise Edition, and vice versa. The FIM is geared more towards LE as it is a "portable" package, meant for one time acquires over networks as law enforcement agencies may require. The Enterprise Edition is meant for Corporate clients where it would be installed on a network and left there for the ongoing use of the company examiners. The capabilities are the same. The Forensic Edition of the software is the widely used, and much less expensive version of Encase. It lacks the capability of acquiring data over a "live" network. If a server or node is to be acquired it must be shut down.

As for hardware, again, your not missing anything, except perhaps the secret machines that the intelligence community may or may not have. In that instance we don't know what we're missing, literally.

 
Posted : 01/04/2005 9:05 pm
(@blivet)
Posts: 6
Active Member
 

I would not write a business plan on contracting to law enforcement. Its just not a good long term plan. Many, many agencies are recognizing the importance of forensics and are starting up programs. We have access to so many Federal Task Forces that we can get the training and experience we need without spending a huge amount of money.

I look for every agency to have the capability, either in-house or through a regional law enforcement lab, within 5 years.

My2cWorth

 
Posted : 07/04/2005 4:32 am
(@gmarshall139)
Posts: 378
Reputable Member
 

I look for every agency to have the capability, either in-house or through a regional law enforcement lab, within 5 years.
My2cWorth

I think you're right about this. I also look for the state forensic labs to offer these services as well. I think we have a couple of examiners in Richmond now, but not in any of the regional labs as of yet.

 
Posted : 07/04/2005 2:07 pm
(@blivet)
Posts: 6
Active Member
 

I look for every agency to have the capability, either in-house or through a regional law enforcement lab, within 5 years.
My2cWorth

I think you're right about this. I also look for the state forensic labs to offer these services as well. I think we have a couple of examiners in Richmond now, but not in any of the regional labs as of yet.

Hehe…your State lab I'm sure. NC, I love'em, is way behind on this issue. Like DNA testing, it takes an act of congress to get anything but a serial killer case before a DNA or forensic examiner. They are getting there. 🙂

 
Posted : 07/04/2005 9:04 pm
nickfx
(@nickfx)
Posts: 131
Estimable Member
 

Hi; here in the UK some regional police forces do outsource work to the private sector. I have consulted for a number of forces on computer and mobile phone investigations, even when they have their own forensics teams.

As mentioned in previous posts, it is not a way to focus your business though. For us, we focus on the investigation of corporate matters that the Police are either not interested in or will not be called in until later.

Nick
www.csitech.co.uk

 
Posted : 08/04/2005 10:40 am
 Andy
(@andy)
Posts: 357
Reputable Member
 

Sorry… I don't agree. And somehow I feel I need to defend myself and colleagues…. Whilst what you say may be true for a small minority or police constabularies, the vast majority are well up to speed with Forensic Computing, and do an extremely fine job. I actually find such remarks an insult, especially from someone who has only posted on this forum to advertise their 'services'.

Andy

 
Posted : 13/04/2005 8:51 pm
(@gmarshall139)
Posts: 378
Reputable Member
 

While they do have EnCase trained officers, most of them have only the basic training and not the years of experience that most of the propellor heads in the private sector have, and, as such, are not always up to speed on the why and how side of the data. They can find it, but cannot always explain it!!

I'll take exception to this as well Andy. Certainly those you mention are exceptional, and my general experience with law enforcement examiners in the UK is that they are very capable. I responded to a similiar post about Canadian examiners some time back. I'm not sure about the basis for these statements, but perhaps it's related to the difference in backgrounds that a L.E. examiner will often have versus the private sector examiner. The lack of an IT background does not in any way detract from an examiner's capabilities. Those experiences are valuable, but I think the investigator's mindset, the intuition one gains from experience in smelling the rat and piecing cases together is irreplacable. Some things you can learn and others have to be developed through experience.

 
Posted : 13/04/2005 9:21 pm
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