LTE, Test Trials and Cell Site Analysis

Everything Everywhere Coverage Checker

LTE 4GEE - http//trewmte.blogspot.co.uk/2012/10/lte-4gee.html

Greg,

I’ve not had a chance to read the articles on the blogspot yet, but I wanted to make a couple of comments and ask a question or two. My very basic understanding of cell site analysis would be attempting to determine the coverage area of a cell site and possibly the sector as well. I’m assuming it also would encompass attempting to determine whether or not a handset could have been in a specific location historically based upon available data.

In another thread several members of the site commented about the possibility of getting you over here for some training. All training is good, but I am wondering how the training you could offer would translate to the way networks are set up here in the U.S. And can I take away skills learned in your training and apply them here in the U.S? I have a feeling that there “may” be limitations to what could be accomplished here in the U.S. due to existing laws, finanancial restrictions and a possible reluctance by providers to produce requested data.

Here in the U.S. we still rely heavily on CDMA, but as both CDMA and GSM providers move towards LTE will the term LTE mean the same for all providers? Will all providers meet the minimum standards of LTE the same way and will the end product closely match UK LTE setups or at least closely resemble them?

As I’ve mentioned previously we have no standards for CSA here in the U.S., but in a way I believe the term, to some extent, is still being defined. Can you give me your definition for CSA and what are you trying to prove or disprove? In terms of “Analysis” what are you analyzing and are there aspects of the Cell Site that you don’t analyze? Does this analysis assist you in determining the historical position of a handset?

To do a proper CSA in the UK can you tell me what specific data you require and are able to obtain from the providers? Do they share RF Propagation maps with law enforcement at no cost and is this something you even ask for? It is my understanding that these maps are costly. The only other way I know of obtaining one would be with the assistance of an FBI CAST team and I don’t believe they roll on much less than a class A or B Felony?

Cheers,

I’ve not had a chance to read the articles on the blogspot yet, but I wanted to make a couple of comments and ask a question or two. My very basic understanding of cell site analysis would be attempting to determine the coverage area of a cell site and possibly the sector as well. I’m assuming it also would encompass attempting to determine whether or not a handset could have been in a specific location historically based upon available data.

The materials and objectives for CSA are performed on a case by case basis. Trying to push a quart into a pint pot to pour out a simplified set of rules is largely self-defeating and rarely works. CSA has to be learned, including the wide range of sources where information is obtained. Consequently, CSA operates on several levels historical; live tests; realtime interception. Coverage area and sector have application along with a range of other information.

In another thread several members of the site commented about the possibility of getting you over here for some training. All training is good, but I am wondering how the training you could offer would translate to the way networks are set up here in the U.S. And can I take away skills learned in your training and apply them here in the U.S? I have a feeling that there “may” be limitations to what could be accomplished here in the U.S. due to existing laws, finanancial restrictions and a possible reluctance by providers to produce requested data.

If that is correct (and the same was said about mobile phone examination and now look how everyone is an expert in the US) nothing would ever get done. However, can you give a guarantee no one is currently providing CSA in the US, that they wont provide such services in the near future in the US, and that the limitations you suggest are prevailing in the States will actually materialise?

Here in the U.S. we still rely heavily on CDMA, but as both CDMA and GSM providers move towards LTE will the term LTE mean the same for all providers? Will all providers meet the minimum standards of LTE the same way and will the end product closely match UK LTE setups or at least closely resemble them?

In a way you have partially answered your own question by using the analogy of CDMA operator moving to LTE and GSM operator moving to LTE. No, I offer you no guarantees to control operators to operator to minimum standards. For instance if two operators offer LTE one with broadband (data) only and the other with broadband (data) and voice (IMS), where is the centre ground for minimum standards under those conditions? What happens where two operators exist, one has only rolled out microcells and the other operator rolls out macrocells, what minimum standards guarantees are you seeking? Implementations of LTE will vary, as they did and do with CDMA, WCDMA and GSM between operators. This is not new news to anyone; it has been happening for years. Knowing those variation forms one important element in the amoury of the expert.

As I’ve mentioned previously we have no standards for CSA here in the U.S., but in a way I believe the term, to some extent, is still being defined. Can you give me your definition for CSA and what are you trying to prove or disprove? In terms of “Analysis” what are you analyzing and are there aspects of the Cell Site that you don’t analyze? Does this analysis assist you in determining the historical position of a handset?

To do a proper CSA in the UK can you tell me what specific data you require and are able to obtain from the providers? Do they share RF Propagation maps with law enforcement at no cost and is this something you even ask for? It is my understanding that these maps are costly. The only other way I know of obtaining one would be with the assistance of an FBI CAST team and I don’t believe they roll on much less than a class A or B Felony?

Now then Ed, are you asking for a free of charge training course? wink

I do not think cell site analysis is extremely difficult to grasp. After all, it relies on proven science. There is plenty to remember, and the factors are almost constantly changing, but there is a solid, underlying science.

I believe the problem is forensic scientists.

In several forensic science fields, we have seen catastrophic failures. These failures did not occur because the science is wrong or incorrect, but because "now look how everyone is an expert"…

And, sadly they are not. Be it that they only passed a certification with no apprenticing, were pushed beyond their understanding, lack of resources, negligence, ego, or other - forensics failed in several areas.

DNA experts found to be forging documents, "matching" fingerprints turn out to be non-matching, computer forensics investigators exaggerated their deductions, dental record practitioners failed to truly match after declaring match, and so on.

In my opinion, these experts failed because they pretended they knew more than actually scientifically provable.

They failed to stop after initial conjectures.

I think the more "analog" a forensic science is, the higher the chance to make unsupported propositions. It also appears more elusive, more magic than science even for other scientists.

I believe cell site analysis falls more toward the "analog" side of things, than say HDD data analysis.