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williamsonn
(@williamsonn)
Member

I have tried to erase and overwritten(ccleaner 7 passes)a 20GB old hard drive, however, 90MB are still used -according "properties". I have activated(folder properties) "show hidden system folders", and the only one which appearing is Recycle Bin( around 4MB).No other. Is this a Restore point, or might be the disc is not correctly erased?
If it is a Restore point, how could I totally erase these near 100MB? thank you very much.

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Posted : 17/10/2012 5:52 pm
jaclaz
(@jaclaz)
Community Legend

I have tried to erase and overwritten(ccleaner 7 passes)a 20GB old hard drive, however, 90MB are still used -according "properties". I have activated(folder properties) "show hidden system folders", and the only one which appearing is Recycle Bin( around 4MB).No other. Is this a Restore point, or might be the disc is not correctly erased?
If it is a Restore point, how could I totally erase these near 100MB? thank you very much.

Well, if you have a recycle Bin on it, you also have a filesystem on it, and the filesystem structures do (obviously) occupy some space.
Try opening that disk in (example) DMDE
http//softdm.com/
and you will see….
And of course overwriting/wiping with more than a single pass is completely UNneeded.

jaclaz

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Posted : 17/10/2012 6:16 pm
mscotgrove
(@mscotgrove)
Senior Member

Do a Full format with Windows 7 (or Vista) This will wipe the disk (once, which as jaclaz says is all you need). It will then add the file system.

If you use FAT32 it will be clear where the file system sectors are stored, FAT and root directory only.

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Posted : 17/10/2012 7:44 pm
jaclaz
(@jaclaz)
Community Legend

Do a Full format with Windows 7 (or Vista) This will wipe the disk (once, which as jaclaz says is all you need). It will then add the file system.

If you use FAT32 it will be clear where the file system sectors are stored, FAT and root directory only.

… and you will have again some space occupied by the filesystem. wink

If you want a "completely empty" disk, you must not partition/format it, i.e. have NO filesystems on the disk - or if you prefer you add nothing to it (but then how exactly will you access it to see if it is empty)? 😯

jaclaz

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Posted : 18/10/2012 1:45 am
williamsonn
(@williamsonn)
Member

I have been using these mentiones harddrives for storing some music and then I have been again thinking on the same question. You mentiones that the occupied space was due to the filesystem required for the drive works properly, now, I wonder this

1-Are not the mentioned space(around 100MB for a 20GB hard disc)excessive for a filesystem?

2-If you erase totally overwritting a hard drive, 1 pass, What happens with the space occupied by the filesystem is it also overwritten before being again occupied by those archives?

thanks

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Posted : 29/01/2013 5:21 am
williamsonn
(@williamsonn)
Member

By th way, now, despite the "show hidden folders" option is activated I can,t see not even the recycle bin.

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Posted : 29/01/2013 5:24 am
csericks
(@csericks)
Member

What are the HDD specs (Make/Model)?

When you say "erase," do you mean the file system, the partition, or the whole HDD?

If you are trying to erase the whole HDD, boot from a linux CD and use "dd" as in the following link

How to erase a hard disk

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Posted : 29/01/2013 5:32 am
williamsonn
(@williamsonn)
Member

It is an IBM SATA disk, 12 years old. 5GB.

By saying "Erase", I mean, first I formated it with Windows 7( not quick format), then I usedccleaner and selected option "delete all the disk" I used 7 passes(This was before I learnt that only one had been enough).

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Posted : 29/01/2013 7:17 am
williamsonn
(@williamsonn)
Member

Now I am seeing again the $recycle bin

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Posted : 29/01/2013 7:54 am
TuckerHST
(@tuckerhst)
Active Member

Williamsonn, seeing files in the recycle bin doesn't mean all data hasn't been wiped. It's simply an artifact of CCleaner's wiping methodology. If you're curious about what CCleaner does, check out David Cowen's anti-anti-forensics presentation (related to his $LOGFILE research).

If you want absolutely nothing to remain on the drive, try using Diskpart, select the drive (be very careful to select the correct drive!) and use "clean all." This will overwrite the entire drive, including the partition table. No file system left, therefore no recycle bin, no $logfile, etc.

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Posted : 29/01/2013 8:06 am
TuckerHST
(@tuckerhst)
Active Member

Incidentally, it can't be a SATA disk. SATA isn't 12 years old. You must mean IDE aka PATA.

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Posted : 29/01/2013 8:10 am
williamsonn
(@williamsonn)
Member

thanks for your answer.

However,recycle bin´s space. appears on Recuva as 120kb only. The other files can ´t be visible?

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Posted : 29/01/2013 3:33 pm
Belkasoft
(@belkasoft)
Active Member

Depending on your setup, you may have VSS (Volume Shadow Copy) stored on that disk as well. What's the new file system you put on it (FAT or NTFS)? NTFS per se occupies A LOT MORE space than FAT due to the many structures such as transaction log files. Either way, if you want a completely empty drive, you need to delete all partitions first… but how do you count free space then? The moment you format the drive with a file system, some space is already "wasted".

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Posted : 29/01/2013 4:31 pm
jaclaz
(@jaclaz)
Community Legend

After you have wiped a hard disk there ARE NO partitions on it NOR filesystems (No drive letter, no other way to access anything if not by direct disk access).
When, after having wiped it, you partition the disk, and later format the partition(s) in it, you are writing new data to it.
Depending on the OS used, on the filesystem chosen, and a number of possible settings, besides the filesystem structures, som data like the pagefile or the Recycle bin may be added first time you boot with that disk attached and/or you merely access it,

WHAT is the point that you don't understand?
The wiping?
The partitioning?
The formatting of the partition(s)?

Try this
Wipe the disk clean. (as an example use Dban, single pass)
DO NOT re-partition/re-format it.
Access the disk through DMDE.
Create a partition on the disk.
Access the disk through DMDE.
Format the partition as FAT32.
Access the disk through DMDE.
RE-format the partition as NTFS.
Access the disk through DMDE.

You should be able to understand what is going on.

jaclaz

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Posted : 29/01/2013 6:17 pm
williamsonn
(@williamsonn)
Member

Dear friends

just arrived and read your messages. I have not the disk here at the moment and have little time. I will reply your messages tomorrow. Thanks wink

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Posted : 30/01/2013 5:20 am
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