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RolfGutmann
(@rolfgutmann)
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FlexRay for very safety-critical applications. Learn all about FlexRay here

https://elearning.vector.com/vl_flexray_introduction_en.html

Ask yourself
Is FlexRay hackable due to fault-tolerant feature?
How looks FlexRay on the protocol analyzer?
Do I understand this screenshot fully?
http//www.zeroplus.com.tw/logic-analyzer_en/products_images/FLEXRAY2.1A_EN01.JPG
Which forensic evidence do I get from FlexRay logging?

Next tomorrow.


   
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RolfGutmann
(@rolfgutmann)
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Topic starter  

Learn from an ASC Active Star Coupler IC's datasheet the logic of FlexRay

http//www.farnell.com/datasheets/2057138.pdf?_ga=2.34495649.12862094.1507276087-1639948286.1507276087&_gac=1.178464400.1507276087.EAIaIQobChMI18jh9sDb1gIVaL7tCh0t_QGTEAYYASABEgI-svD_BwE

To dig deep see here the protocol specs

https://svn.ipd.kit.edu/nlrp/public/FlexRay/FlexRay%E2%84%A2%20Protocol%20Specification%20Version%203.0.1.pdf

Do not give up - become a car forensics expert -)


   
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RolfGutmann
(@rolfgutmann)
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Futureproof learning includes considering autonomous cars may coming, so SAE Society of Automotive Engineers and NHTSA National Highway and Traffic Safety Association are defining the rules

http//www.mychinews.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/MW-DO081_automa_20150615120203_NS.jpg
https://pics.computerbase.de/7/3/4/5/9/1-1080.1323163551.jpg

LiDAR Light Detection And Ranging covers all SAE levels.

At the Audi A8 AI the LiDAR looks like this

https://pics.computerbase.de/7/9/0/9/0/17-1080.842785678.jpg
https://pics.computerbase.de/7/9/0/9/0/18-1080.2277797566.jpg
The side mirror's camera eye looks like
https://pics.computerbase.de/7/9/0/9/0/16-1080.26870012.jpg

See the zFAS zentrales FahrassistenzSteuergerät (central driver assistance controller) here
https://pics.computerbase.de/7/9/0/9/0/8-1080.2175629384.jpg
https://pics.computerbase.de/7/9/0/9/0/9-1080.3743071713.jpg
Nvidia Tegra K1 - a GPU IC
https://pics.computerbase.de/7/9/0/9/0/10-1080.3240898141.jpg
Altera Cyclone SoC FPGA
https://pics.computerbase.de/7/9/0/9/0/10-1080.3240898141.jpg
Topology of sensors and cameras
https://pics.computerbase.de/7/9/0/9/0/38-1080.1636323939.jpg
Topology of actuators
https://pics.computerbase.de/7/9/0/9/0/39-1080.951580236.jpg

Runs the zFAS over FlexRay?
Did you spot the Mobileye (Intel Corp.) SoC?
Where in the car resides the SierraWireless eSIM?


   
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RolfGutmann
(@rolfgutmann)
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The Nvidia slides for the weekend 😉

https://www.slideshare.net/NVIDIAJapan/nvidia-drive-px-64192446

Last pic

http//cdn.wccftech.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/Drive-PX-2-Interfaces.jpg


   
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RolfGutmann
(@rolfgutmann)
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RealityCheck Here the Snap-on Zeus manual

https://www1.snapon.com/display/3871/ZEEMS342A_A_ZEUS_UM.pdf

Or this

https://www.amazon.com/Car-Hackers-Handbook-Penetration-Tester/dp/1593277032/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1507380378&sr=8-1&keywords=9781593277031


   
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(@Anonymous)
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Thanks for sharing this. I stumbled across Vehicle Spy over year ago. I forgot to bookmark it and have been searching for months to find it.

After reviewing the hardware and software requirements, it's a bit out of my budget for my own vehicles. But it does sound like an invaluable tool for troubleshooting.
The most feature filled program of its type that I've seen so far (that wasn't a unit made for specific vehicle models, used exclusively by auto dealership repair centers).

In looking back at the muscle cars and vehicles that were actually "repairable". Say like the 60's and 70's, now it's just another consumable. Todays vehicles might as well be an oversized desktop computer with 4 wheels, seats and a steering wheel.

Now we have "4 wheel miniature DATA CENTERS**" which we utilize for traveling our streets and hwy's.[**at least it's the case for newer OBD-II vehicles, made after 1996.

What I would find real value in would be IF this company's software and associated hardware can provide computer literate folks [like those with a background in programming and firmware] the ability to DISABLE those extraneous features not required by law**?
[As it seems that new vehicles, just like cellphones and computers, come with their own forms of unwanted "bloatware". Would be great to disable everything NOT wanted and personalize one's own vehicle].

(**The NHTSC has determined a "minimum required list" of "black box" features that MUST remain enabled on all new vehicles.

In doing a google search for the phrase, " WHO OWNS THE DATA IN MY VEHICLE'S BLACK BOX"? There are a lot of debates going on.

It seems that there are several entities or groups, all making semi valid "sales pitches" as to why THEY have some level of ownership or at least some level of access to, a vehicle's data.

It seems to start with the NHTSC and the federal gov's "bare minimum", to help with accidents and accident reconstructions. Which seems valid and has a lot of merit.

On a state level, only about 17 or 18 states have specific ownership laws on the books.

For the remaining states, it can be a bit unclear.

Then there are a plethera of other FEATURES that are ENABLED only because one or more of the following entities want them enabled.
The manufacturer and an assortment of 3rd parties
1. vehicle maker [they claim for finding bugs. Great, now we are their BETA testers.]
2. entertainment providers [back seat movies for the kids]
3. cell phone providers [cell couriers]
4. misc providers [streaming music, weather, gps, mapping and travel, entertainment providers, etc]

I would love to be able to go into my vehicle's black box(s) and "toggle OFF" most, if not all, of the monitors and/or functions that are "not required to be ENABLED by law". [Just like getting rid of the bloatware/junk people have to contend with on their new cell phones].

Ideally, in the "spirit of transparency", it would be nice to have vehicles offered to the consumer with an OPEN SOURCE ECM. Something like DIY EFI
Or, perhaps even better would be 3rd party producers of the ECM modules.
[just like buying an UNLOCKED android cellphone, which contains only the Telco apps and lets you decide what carrier to use and what features to add].

Thanks again OP for posting this and all the related info about the subject.


   
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RolfGutmann
(@rolfgutmann)
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@disenchanted I fully understand your view of today's cars being data centers on 4 wheels with useless bloatware and features of entertainment and driving assistance. I would love to disable all the location and behaviour data taken from a car. Yes, drivers are the beta tester and big data suppliers for the car manufacturers to optimize their algos and feed into payable car services.

To master the beast - you have to know the beast first.

It was reason years ago to start with car forensics to get back control. Our corps car fleet comes with all that surveillance trash and its a basic principle in law enforcement that location is the most valuable information I will never share freely.

How to run an undercover investigation if your car reveals your location?

I agree that Vehicle Spy is expensive. If we find cheaper but useful systems over time I am the first to focus on COTS Commercial Of The Shelf approach. But all that creepy stuff for only Diagnostic Trouble Codes DTC (J1939 protocol based on CAN) is not helpful for Car Forensics.

Posters of car protocols you can order for free here

https://vector.com/vi_infomaterial_orderlist_posters_en.html


   
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RolfGutmann
(@rolfgutmann)
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Joined: 10 years ago
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Topic starter  

If you think about a car of risking your life - you should care about CyberSec on cars. See here the tomorrows schedule of issues

https://vector.com/vi_vses_2017_en.html

We try to stick to the different VRD Vulnerability Risk Domains later and over time. Not easy as DFC!

But remember Connected Cars log everything back to their home servers. And they talk to your insurance provider You lose.


   
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RolfGutmann
(@rolfgutmann)
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Topic starter  

Update Oct 16th, due to misuse of the pics I was forced to remove the link.

ADAS Advanced Driver Assistance Systems pics from a car show. Within brands you can learn to visually differentiate and FastLearn which is an ADAS behind or inside and which is just plastic -)


   
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UnallocatedClusters
(@unallocatedclusters)
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Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 576
 

Rolf,

Apologies for my ignorance, but is it possible to extract Android Auto (https://www.android.com/auto/) and/or Apple Car Play (https://www.apple.com/ios/carplay/) via the OBDII port?

Are there other physical data "out" ports a forensic professional could extract Android/Apple data from cars with dissembling the center dash?

One possible extraction method would be to install Compelson's MOBILedit Forensic connector (https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.compelson.mefconnector) onto the car system directly.

Once the MOBILedit Forensic connector is installed in the car system, data could be extracted wirelessly via Bluetooth or WiFi to a forensic laptop running MOBILedit Forensic Express.

Also, I wonder if Apple Car Play data could be (or is currently) backed up to Apple's iCloud service, in which case one could use Elcomsoft Phone Breaker to download the car's mobile backup from Apple iCloud.

I also wonder if it is possible to install an application to Android Auto / Apple Car Play on the car itself which could capture data types normally output through the OBD II port, and then extract the collected data via MOBILedit Forensic / Elcomsoft Phone Breaker?


   
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