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Why You Should Hire a DF Professional for Criminal Cases  

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marcyu
(@marcyu)
Active Member
tracedf
(@tracedf)
Active Member

It's not just criminal cases. Most small to mid-sized businesses are content to have their local system administrator provide forensic support to HR with no training, tools, etc. Most of the time, the cases are simple enough that they get the right result and/or do not get challenged (e.g. Bob knows he is guilty so he takes the severance offered and quietly resigns). In other cases, the employee gets screwed. But, I don't think many companies are having to pay up yet so good luck convincing them to hire an expert when their IT guy is willing to take a look.

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Posted : 02/01/2018 6:40 pm
jaclaz
(@jaclaz)
Community Legend

You see how different people may get different morals from a story? )

You got
Why You Should Hire a DF Professional for Criminal Cases

I got
Police should be better trained (and be held responsible for their incompetence).

From one of the linked articles
http//www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5223567/Man-rape-conviction-quashed-police-blunder.html

In an exclusive interview with the MoS, Mr Kay said archived versions of the original messages – proving he had consensual sex with his accuser – were found by his sister-in-law, Sarah Maddison. When she showed the Facebook exchange to the officer in charge of the investigation, he said ‘How did you know how to find the messages and we didn’t?’

and

‘Why didn’t the police check my Facebook account when they had my laptop and login details right from the start? Why did it take my sister-in-law to find the evidence? This isn’t some small matter, this is my life and for the police not to do those basic checks is horrendous.’

Mr Kay said he owed his liberty to a chance conversation with a fellow inmate, who convinced him the Facebook messages he thought were lost were recoverable.

Mr Kay asked Ms Maddison to log in to his account. ‘I couldn’t believe how easy it was to find the messages,’ she said. ‘I’ve just worked in admin all my life and am no social media expert. It only took me a minute to find them so how trained police couldn’t is beyond me.’

and

The Mail on Sunday has seen a witness statement from the officer leading the investigation, saying the messages were obtained by asking the accuser to log in to Facebook and print them off. ‘I made sure that no messages were missed,’ he said. At no point did the officer cross-reference the accuser’s version of the conversation with Mr Kay’s archived messages.

And, JFYI, these "news" are even worse

https://nakedsecurity.sophos.com/2018/01/02/ip-address-errors-lead-to-wrongful-arrests/

Link to the actual report by Sir Stanley Burnton
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/report-of-the-interception-of-communications-commissioner-annual-report-2016

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/670219/IOCCO_annual_report_2016_2.PDF

Let's hope that 2017 has been a better year.

jaclaz

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Posted : 02/01/2018 8:04 pm
marcyu
(@marcyu)
Active Member

Police should be better trained (and be held responsible for their incompetence).

That is a truism for any public entity, but the funding just is not there; nor will the funding ever be there for most localities. That being the reality, the only thing you can do is to defend yourself as vehemently as possible, especially by paying for a trained professional in the fields that you need expertise.

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Posted : 02/01/2018 8:32 pm
minime2k9
(@minime2k9)
Active Member

Police should be better trained (and be held responsible for their incompetence).

That is a truism for any public entity, but the funding just is not there; nor will the funding ever be there for most localities. That being the reality, the only thing you can do is to defend yourself as vehemently as possible, especially by paying for a trained professional in the fields that you need expertise.

Apparently police should be trained to deal with all types of cases to the best ability of an expert in that field and keep up to date with the latest methods, its blatantly not going to happen.

The police have to deal with a wide range of cases and although technology plays a big part in a lot of cases now, expecting them to be experts in all technology is unrealistic. This is ultimately the problem with tools for front line officers, eventually they will miss something important and the whole thing will blow up.

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Posted : 02/01/2018 8:45 pm
keydet89
(@keydet89)
Community Legend

It's not just criminal cases. Most small to mid-sized businesses are content to have their local system administrator provide forensic support to HR with no training, tools, etc. .

Don't mean to keep pushing this off topic, but this leads directly to a conversation I've been having with another professional in the field; specifically, how do clients of forensic services determine the competency of the analysts, and judge the quality of the work?

I ask, as I've been in the industry for some time. I've seen and been involved in "cases" where a client would call and ask us to review someone else's report. I've also been tasked with reviewing reports sent to clients by coworkers (previous to my current employment), and in more than one instance, found the report of findings to be completely incorrect.

How do clients in the private sector determine the quality of work done? How do lawyers determine the quality of the work performed by those they hire?

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Posted : 02/01/2018 8:56 pm
keydet89
(@keydet89)
Community Legend

Apparently police should be trained to deal with all types of cases to the best ability of an expert in that field and keep up to date with the latest methods, its blatantly not going to happen.

Agreed. Sworn officers have too many other requirements that they have to meet, just to maintain proficiency in their jobs.

It's unfortunate that there's a culture bias, to some extent, against developing relationships with outside 'experts', those who are in a position to maintain a much higher level of competency and awareness. I know of a few instances where this was done to great effect, but it didn't last long once other officers in the department found out what was going on.

I'm not saying that I want to see the pictures that officers have to view…nothing could be further from the truth. What I'm saying is that there folks out there like me who would be more than happy to assist law enforcement officers who wanted assistance. I have done so in the past (albeit not with any local jurisdiction) and would be happy to do so again, as I'm sure others would, as well.

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Posted : 02/01/2018 9:05 pm
tracedf
(@tracedf)
Active Member

How do clients in the private sector determine the quality of work done? How do lawyers determine the quality of the work performed by those they hire?

Short of having their expert embarrassed in court, I'm not sure. And, that's probably why they continue to use people who are not trained. They have no way to see the difference unless they get challenged in court and lose.

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Posted : 02/01/2018 9:31 pm
RolfGutmann
(@rolfgutmann)
Community Legend

The question is how you find a top DF Professional?

And ordinary people cannot afford a top expert.

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Posted : 02/01/2018 9:43 pm
tracedf
(@tracedf)
Active Member

Sworn officers have too many other requirements that they have to meet, just to maintain proficiency in their jobs.

There's also a tendency to assign people to the computer investigations unit with no regard for their technical skills. There were a couple of detectives in the intro forensics class that I took with Guidance Software who had no background in computers/IT and were attending two weeks of training with the expectation that they would be handling computer forensics examinations when they returned. That's a hell of a learning curve to expect from someone.

There are a lot of good digital forensics people with a badge; I'm not trying to disparage them. But, providing a little bit of training to an officer and expecting them to be experts without providing the time and support to really develop those skills is just dumb.

Going back to your point that officers have too many other requirements to meet, I agree. makes more sense to have dedicated forensic examiners (internal or external) who can work alongside the detectives and be 100% focused on their forensics skills.

Side question How long do you think it would take, on average, to develop an interested person with minimal tech skills into a competent examiner?

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Posted : 02/01/2018 9:48 pm
RolfGutmann
(@rolfgutmann)
Community Legend

A little bit of training is for nothing. It has to be your true love.

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Posted : 02/01/2018 10:05 pm
keydet89
(@keydet89)
Community Legend

The question is how you find a top DF Professional?

And ordinary people cannot afford a top expert.

How do you know?

I don't consider myself a top DF professional, but I've done pro bono work in several instances. Some was pretty straight-forward…recover files from a hard drive of a system that would no longer boot.

In another instance I did pro bono work for a court case, and my report was used to get charges dismissed.

Some people don't need a 'top expert', they just need the work done accurately.

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Posted : 02/01/2018 10:35 pm
keydet89
(@keydet89)
Community Legend

There's also a tendency to assign people to the computer investigations unit with no regard for their technical skills.

I've seen that, as well. I used to teach a course when I worked for a company in Reston, VA, and two seats in the intro course were given to detectives in a nearby LE jurisdiction. One showed up, and had no idea how to open a command prompt. He made the mistake of closing the prompt when he thought we were done, and had to be shown how to do it again. It wasn't that he couldn't learn, it was just so outside of his familiarity.

But, at the same time, I've seen the same thing with folks assigned to performing exams in the private sector, as well. I've also seen a great deal where some really smart folks would be sent to a training event, only to spend all of their time on email, slack, or some other form of social media, and neither pick up nor contribute anything.

Side question How long do you think it would take, on average, to develop an interested person with minimal tech skills into a competent examiner?

It depends…how "interested" are they, and what is considered "competent"? I would think that if you were to say, starting with Windows 7 or Windows 10, you could turn someone who's interested into a competent examiner on that platform (not including specific applications) in a week of dedicated effort.

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Posted : 02/01/2018 10:42 pm
randomaccess
(@randomaccess)
Active Member

I don't consider myself a top DF professional

Off topic, but I respectfully disagree (not with your opinion of yourself, that can be whatever you want, but that you are not a top DF professional is what I disagree with)

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Posted : 03/01/2018 7:48 am
randomaccess
(@randomaccess)
Active Member

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2018/01/02/man-convicted-rape-freed-after-sister-law-finds-deleted-facebook-messages-prove-his-innocence/995197001/

strange case….only from a perspective of things dont really add up to me

The investigator probably should have gotten the other side of the conversation as well; not sure of the jurisdictional issues but since they apparently had the credentials, they may have been able to get permission from the owner or the court to use them.

But excusing that, the accused would have received the brief of evidence from the prosecution and seen the facebook messages being used against him. He would have been able to see the conversation and say "wait..that didn't happen that way".

He didn't delete the messages on his account…so they would have been on his facebook account still? I just did a quick test and deleted my sent messages from one account, and they still appeared on the other.

Just odd that he didn't present his side

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Posted : 03/01/2018 8:04 am
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