28 day pre-charge b...
 
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28 day pre-charge bail in UK

tootypeg
(@tootypeg)
Active Member

So, it came in in April 2017, how has it impacted everyone? or even has it?

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Topic starter Posted : 12/07/2017 1:21 am
wotsits
(@wotsits)
Active Member

Where there is a justification the bail can be extended. Large amounts of seized data being forensically examined is a justification.

The cap is mainly to curb slow decision making at middle management, not where investigations continuing are justified.

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Posted : 12/07/2017 9:38 am
minime2k9
(@minime2k9)
Active Member

The bail date can be extended to 56 days by police for most investigations involving digital investigations and then after that can be extended by magistrates.

In all honesty, because most Digital Forensics units have a backlog of more than 56 days (most more than the 3 month maximum before a magistrate has to be seen), is that officers simply don't arrest the suspect and therefore don't have to bail them. Therefore bail act is no longer relevant but it does mean they have no bail conditions.

Bailing someone for long periods of time due to a wait on 'apparently' isn't a good reason to extend bail.

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Posted : 12/07/2017 1:47 pm
tootypeg
(@tootypeg)
Active Member

so can police just not arrest someone then to avoid the pre-bail limits? is so, how does this still allow them to continue their examinations of say the suspects computer? are they relying on a suspect voluteering the information?

I dont get how an investiation of someone can continue without either charging or bailing?

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Topic starter Posted : 13/07/2017 3:41 am
minime2k9
(@minime2k9)
Active Member

so can police just not arrest someone then to avoid the pre-bail limits? is so, how does this still allow them to continue their examinations of say the suspects computer? are they relying on a suspect voluteering the information?

I dont get how an investiation of someone can continue without either charging or bailing?

Very easily
Obtain an a warrant for address based on evidence
Execute warrant and seize computer equipment
If no admissions are made by individuals at address, don't arrest anyone.
Computer is legally seized and in police possession.
No one has been arrested and therefore on bail.

For a lot of intelligence that comes for IIoC cases, all that is given is an IP address and some activity which relates to an address Therefore there is no way of knowing who in that (if anyone) is responsible for that activity.

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Posted : 13/07/2017 12:21 pm
wotsits
(@wotsits)
Active Member

There's also likely to be an increase in the use of voluntary interviews, in complex cases that are likely to take time, so arrests can be saved until later in the game.

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Posted : 13/07/2017 1:05 pm
tootypeg
(@tootypeg)
Active Member

Thanks both, good points here.

Wotsits- I had read a little bit about voluntary attendance for interviews being used. I do wonder tho that those who know they are guilty probably are less likely. But then again they would be caught during an investigation so suppose it makes sense

Minime- Given your scenario there, would police not have to legally hand all equipment/data back to the person if they do not arrest - therefore not being able to examine anything once they are released. Or would they take an image and be legally ok to keep the image and examine at a later date then re-arrest the subject say 6 months later when they had got round to investigating it? Surely thats not legal??? 😯 😯

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Topic starter Posted : 13/07/2017 2:59 pm
minime2k9
(@minime2k9)
Active Member

Minime- Given your scenario there, would police not have to legally hand all equipment/data back to the person if they do not arrest - therefore not being able to examine anything once they are released. Or would they take an image and be legally ok to keep the image and examine at a later date then re-arrest the subject say 6 months later when they had got round to investigating it? Surely thats not legal??? 😯 😯

Nope.
They have a warrant to legally seize items from the house, irrelevant of whether they arrest anyone or not. This is granted by a magistrate (usually).
You cant return the items in an IIoC case as they may contain Indecent Images and therefore you would be distributing them. Also the defence has a right to examine the original item, returning it makes this difficult.

Section 8 warrants are common
http//www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1984/60/section/8

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Posted : 13/07/2017 4:49 pm
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