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Mark_Eskridge
(@mark_eskridge)
Junior Member

Is this a new trend, or is it just bothering me more? I am talking about the numerous situations wherein a computer forensics student is given an assignment which they don't seem to have been properly prepared for and, for which, they don't seem to have a clue about initiating. Therefore, a post is made to a forum such as this, when the question should have been posed to their instructor. Are today's schools really turning out future professional that are this unprepared and completely unable to think for themselves? And they always seem to post without mentioning that it is a homework assignment. Like we couldn't tell. Just my opinion.

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Posted : 23/06/2013 10:04 am
jaclaz
(@jaclaz)
Community Legend

Is this a new trend, or is it just bothering me more?

I think it is both! 😯
Meaning that there is seemingly and increase of such trend and probably you have already seen so many of them that you have somehow become more sensitive to them.

Only seemingly OT, the "dumbing down" happen on "all sides"
http//www.forensicfocus.com/Forums/viewtopic/t=9703/
i.e. also the expectations are lowered ….

jaclaz

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Posted : 23/06/2013 4:33 pm
twjolson
(@twjolson)
Active Member

I don't mind it, unless the student is coming on and looking for the answer.

For me, it integrates the student with the digital forensics community at large. No one can operate in the digital forensics field as an island. At some point they will have to reach out for help. This is an important skill that must be taught.

If I were a teacher, I would create an assignment or two to purposefully require the student to go beyond the text book, beyond the teacher, beyond their fellow students and research an answer. Again, the ability to research is an important one. The posts you see may be in connection with this.

So, no, it doesn't bother me. For those who are trying to get us to do their homework for them, I chide. For those who are aiming to learn the above skills, I help.

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Posted : 24/06/2013 5:48 am
Bulldawg
(@bulldawg)
Active Member

Like twjolson, I don't mind as long as they're not just looking for the answer.

In their career, they will no doubt need to reach out to other professionals for advice, and they might as well get used to doing that in school rather than graduate and think they have all the answers and never reach out for help when they need it. We all need help sometimes.

I do see more and more students who just want the answer, and I refuse to respond to those, even if I know the answer, but I like the opportunity to help people.

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Posted : 25/06/2013 12:57 am
bsc.Smith19
(@bsc-smith19)
Junior Member

Is this a new trend, or is it just bothering me more? I am talking about the numerous situations wherein a computer forensics student is given an assignment which they don't seem to have been properly prepared for and, for which, they don't seem to have a clue about initiating. Therefore, a post is made to a forum such as this, when the question should have been posed to their instructor. Are today's schools really turning out future professional that are this unprepared and completely unable to think for themselves? And they always seem to post without mentioning that it is a homework assignment. Like we couldn't tell. Just my opinion.

I'm currently a student studying computer forensics, my response to this is

I beleive there is a lack of industry related staff actually involved in the teaching of the courses.

This year I have never felt so unprepared to do any of the work we were handed because of a "book worm" of a lecturer. Who has no industry experience what so ever. This lack of induistry experience is what is forcing students to come to this forum and others like it. I use this forum for my own learning and I take a lot of interest in posts. I also give back what I take from this site. I have written and published one article for this website so far with a few others currently in the process of being written or currently in the planning stages.

Also academics or "book worm" lecturers are not great at answering questions. I once asked mine a simple question relating to alternate data streams her response was "read the material given", the material she was referring to was the assignment brief / spec. Which bascially just said investigate it? Not the best professional answer really is it? Not to mention extremely unhelpful. Needless to say that my entire class has placed a complaint about her to the dean of the school.

I know it does come across as being really annoying, I will only ever ask a question here as a very very last resort as i know how frustrated people get. I dont look for the answer or anything thats for me to find, I just appreciate how other people would conduct investigations or what other tools they use to do the same thing i have done. Or even just some research ideas. Every little helps.

This is just my opinion but thanks for reading.

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Posted : 27/06/2013 2:06 pm
dan0841
(@dan0841)
Member

I'm currently a student studying computer forensics, my response to this is

I beleive there is a lack of industry related staff actually involved in the teaching of the courses.

This year I have never felt so unprepared to do any of the work we were handed because of a "book worm" of a lecturer. Who has no industry experience what so ever. This lack of induistry experience is what is forcing students to come to this forum and others like it. I use this forum for my own learning and I take a lot of interest in posts. I also give back what I take from this site. I have written and published one article for this website so far with a few others currently in the process of being written or currently in the planning stages.

You are absolutely correct about a large number of institutions offering Digital Forensic degrees which are taught by lecturers who are not practitioners. There are a few exceptions, Cranfield and DeMontford being 2 that I know of, which have some of the top practitioners as lecturers. I think the problem stems from Universities hashing together 'Forensics' courses using existing lecturers

I studied a BSc which had limited practitioner input and was very much the same. Luckily, the majority of it was Computer Science based and was very well taught. At the end of the day, every person on my course who worked hard and came out with top grades (1st) went on to get jobs in the industry. I have since been lucky enough to study post grad at Cranfield and have now worked some great cases for 4 yrs.

Dan

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Posted : 27/06/2013 2:57 pm
jaclaz
(@jaclaz)
Community Legend

I beleive there is a lack of industry related staff actually involved in the teaching of the courses.

I also believe that a lot of other things are lacking.

JFYI Re accuracy/grammar/grades
http//www.forensicfocus.com/Forums/viewtopic/t=10529/

How much of this is to be attributed to the decadence of society 😯 , to the "institution" (Uni) in itself, to the single professors/lecturers or to the single student(s) is highly debatable.

Since you are currently a student, how would you grade the above linked to as a university level project by a team of students?
Imagine that - for a moment - you are the professor, what do you think of it?

Maybe there is also something diverging in the expectations that one may have from a university student or graduate or from the actual university level when compared to the actual levels the university (or the single professor) is actually "satisfied with" or actually "offers".

jaclaz

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Posted : 27/06/2013 6:03 pm
keydet89
(@keydet89)
Community Legend

I beleive there is a lack of industry related staff actually involved in the teaching of the courses.

Eric Huber recently blogged about his view on the issue
http//www.ericjhuber.com/2013/05/ever-get-feeling-youve-been-cheated.html

I've never attended formal education in the field, beyond a couple of vendor courses; I "came up" before there were any courses available. During my graduate studies, however, I did see something similar. Specifically, in order to become a PhD, and teach at a major institution, there are no courses required in providing education. To become a teacher at the high school level and below, there are years of education and a certification program…but for college and graduate programs, there doesn't seem to be any requirement for taking courses in how to teach.

It really doesn't bother me much that students come to forums like this to get answers for their homework assignments. It used to bother me that many of the questions were short on details…I chalked that up to the Twitter generation. However, if we look around, we see a lot of posts from experienced examiners that similarly include less than enough pertinent information. Maybe we can't blame what the students do on their instructors, but instead on what they see as how the community appears to function.

It's funny…sometimes we get into a discussion of what we'd like to see of new folks entering the industry, when we don't measure up to that standard ourselves.

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Posted : 27/06/2013 10:26 pm
keydet89
(@keydet89)
Community Legend

Something else to consider

http//www.dfinews.com/articles/2013/05/training-not-enough-case-education-over-training#.UcxpCvnVB8F

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Posted : 27/06/2013 11:01 pm
jaclaz
(@jaclaz)
Community Legend

Something else to consider

http//www.dfinews.com/articles/2013/05/training-not-enough-case-education-over-training#.UcxpCvnVB8F

Curiously, when I raised (indirectly) the issue about "click monkeys" there were rather opposite views
http//www.forensicfocus.com/Forums/viewtopic/t=2488/

jaclaz

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Posted : 28/06/2013 12:03 am
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