LAC and Cell ID info

danielb,
i have been looking at this as well, unfortunately the ofcom site doesnt corrolate, have asked sweden re the xry to see what ref they are actually displaying but awaiting an answer to date, as the geo tag gets more and more popular this will hopefully help place people as well

The ofcom site references on masts as the Mast ID and not the Cell ID hence the lack of a coorelation.

My advice would be to stay well away from commenting on this information if you are not wishing to get into CSA. By placing it in your report (and hence having to explain the termnology/meaning) then you are opening yourself up to being question about it in court. Which may lead a barrister to question you about the significance of a telephone last connecting to a mast in wigan and asking you what this means in terms of where the phone was….which I doubt you wish to get into.

The other thing to think about is that if the telephone is not switched off at the time it was seized then your cell information may actually reflect the telephone sitting in the police station or even worse if a telephone switches on as it's stored before being examined….

Well as I said its mainly for the lifeblog app on symbian phones that give this info. Which is what I am mainly looking at and I am looking at just giving a area where the mast is as indication only. The info I get is basically the geotag of an image etc
I believe infact doing this would probably open up more business to people that did site analysis rather than hinder it.

As for your other concerns I do agree on what you said especially regarding if the handset was switched on etc. However that is often beyond our control as it is dependent on the officer getting the device and how it is stored.

But for the moment its just for research into the viability of adding this as along the lines of a telephone area code (i.e 0151 (Liverpool))

I was just interest to see if there was anything available

Dan

I was not worried about it removing work for CSA people I was concerned about you putting something in your report that you were not fully able to explain to a court. My own experience in the UK and Ireland is that CSA experts are harshly questioned in court much more so than mobile examinations (I do both). Barristers often completely go for it and try to undermine a CSA and connection record analysis expert or anyone commenting about this type of analysis. So they may try and target you and undermine your evidence regarding the cell information which in turn could weaken the rest of your testomony regarding your mobile examination work (in the Jury's and Court's eye).

Sometimes it's not as simple as the telephone is in the Liverpool area because it used a cell in the area. I've found experimentally and in cases that cells can serve in areas many miles away from the mast and that if you looked only at a map you'd conclude it was highlight unlikely they would serve there. You also have added complexities to consider in terms of the cell's sector, type of cell, landscape…………….i.e. Headaches!

Yes I understand your points Sam, and several of my colleagues agree with you. However I am just at the research stage and have no intention of including this info in reports at this stage. It is just in the stage of seeing if it can be done, then looking at a lot of phone data etc. Then depending on this and further testing/discussions may not go any further but thats another story.
Its just a "Is it possible" idea at the moment.

Dan

I like what you are trying to do but, metaphorically speaking, you are standing on your head whilst trying to take an objective view on this matter. That can work with other matters, but not with this one.

Stop limiting yourself to partial data analysis and then you may find that instead of trying to prove the notion of an 'all in one solution' from limited data acquisition that instead you provide a mechanism to show, based upon combination, the radio DNA footprints to which others must do their job and get the results.

The bit I don't like is the database issue, and I am not disrespecting you for suggesting it, but the idea has already been run and failed and contains potential points of appeal for submitting misleading evidence.

PS - good observations too, Sam.

Thx for the replys.

I think what I was after has been looked into at too greater depth for the moment.

Basically I was after something for my computer that works in the same way as Google Mobile Maps application thats on a handset works .

Im not after actually creating a database or the like but I was just wondering if the data used was openly available without spending too much time on it.

I guess my little random research mission on this will have to be put on hold for a while.

Dan, good to know you will continue your investigation on this topic. Look forward to seeing the results.

Various model phones and of course SIM cards store LAC and Cell ID information on them.
Does anyone know of a database or way of getting the location of these easily (UK based is what im most interested in). The information given doesn't have to be in detail as its for indication only.
Eg Certain Nokia Symbian handsets have a lifeblog app which gives this info. So I was looking at adding that LAC xxx Cell ID XXX was in Wigan (Or something similar to Area codes on landlines).
This would be useful so that the information contained in this would be easily grasped by law enforcement and others.
I don't do cell site analysis and don't want the info given to encroach too far into this area.
But some websites or software ideas would save me some valuable time and may help others.

Thanks
Dan

I'm sorry for a little bit of advertising, but Oxygen Forensic Suite 2 does this job quite well. See the Geo event positioning (LifeBlog) add-on http//www.oxygen-forensic.com/en/features/lifeblog/